Pre-Crisis Karate Kid vs Bills

[Surtur]

Either a hit from Wally or PC Barry. Either way, I don't see why you have such a huge problem with the differences between travel and reaction speeds now. You never once did before and even agreed with it.

Yes, but his opponent will still be like a statue to him. Can he kick at super speed? If he can, I don't see why there is a big issue with his moving his legs for other purposes.

As for the past and travel speed vs reaction, this for me more has always been..if you can fly in space at FTL speeds it doesn't mean you can blitz. But Val is actually reacting to hits and moving his body out of the way. That is why Thor can fly in space at FTL speeds, but he doesn't have actual feats and moving out of the way of things traveling at massive FTL speeds in the way Val does.

[Dalak]

And as has been pointed out to you, it is still not fast enough to even effect someone who is MFTL.

What has been pointed out the most? - 'Super Karate doesn't work like that' saying he can't move faster than a CBPH unless fighting/dodging. This proves that wrong. Then it's a question of if he can move as fast as he's been shown to for short bursts of things like backflipping repeatedly fast enough to dodge multiple blasts of heat vision. Once those things are agreed upon it's only as easy as adding 1 and 1 to make 2. No ABC logic necessary, and added into his throwing skill makes for a victory in the ring.

[Cody]

Yes, but his opponent will still be like a statue to him. Can he kick at super speed? If he can, I don't see why there is a big issue with his moving his legs for other purposes.

It's Super Karate, not Super sprinting. Seriously why are you trying to make sense of this? It is like me when I was trying to make sense of Sentry's power showing a month or so back, to which Pendaran pointed out wasn't something that needed to be thought hard on as it was a scene that had little sense to it. Val is like that but multiplied by a thousand. Trying to make sense of it like you are is an act of futility.

As for the past and travel speed vs reaction, this for me more has always been..if you can fly in space at FTL speeds it doesn't mean you can blitz. But Val is actually reacting to hits and moving his body out of the way. That is why Thor can fly in space at FTL speeds, but he doesn't have actual feats and moving out of the way of things traveling at massive FTL speeds in the way Val does.

But again, Val has no feats of super speed and his Super Karate only really allows him super combat speed. That is it.

What has been pointed out the most? - 'Super Karate doesn't work like that' saying he can't move faster than a CBPH unless fighting/dodging. This proves that wrong. Then it's a question of if he can move as fast as he's been shown to for short bursts of things like backflipping repeatedly fast enough to dodge multiple blasts of heat vision. Once those things are agreed upon it's only as easy as adding 1 and 1 to make 2. No ABC logic necessary, and added into his throwing skill makes for a victory in the ring.

It wouldn't because all those incidents you speak of were from Post Crisis and against someone who wasn't even a fraction of the speed of light. That, and said attacks he was dodging weren't AOE's. And it only takes one from Bills to wreck Val's ****.

And no, he cannot move faster than a CBPH unless he is using super Karate. Your scan did not prove anything. Fissures do not tend to move that fast. Unless we know the speed that the fissure is moving at, we cannot just say Val is Super Human in travel speed on that alone.

[Dalak]

It wouldn't because all those incidents you speak of were from Post Crisis and against someone who wasn't even a fraction of the speed of light. That, and said attacks he was dodging weren't AOE's. And it only takes one from Bills to wreck Val's ****.

You are still advocating Bills using a ki attack he never used, but you trivialize when Val was dodging the Heat Vision of the guy who rushed him and got judo tossed over to a Red Sun? 'Fraction of Speed of Light' . . . really.

And no, he cannot move faster than a CBPH unless he is using super Karate. Your scan did not prove anything. Fissures do not tend to move that fast. Unless we know the speed that the fissure is moving at, we cannot just say Val is Super Human in travel speed on that alone.

You are also questioning outrunning a fissure that's already almost at it's goal as a valid speed feat. When it moved fast enough to get that far before Val could react and he still was able to outrace it . . .

I just can't take you seriously anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzHfPN2SC1I

[Cody]

You are still advocating Bills using a ki attack he never used,

The majority of people who post on here have already successfully argued that Bills could absolutely is a simple ki ball to bust the planet. It is a ki attack. Not special move just a ki ball, something he has in fact shown capable of doing. His physical strength itself is more than enough to eradicate the area by just punching the ground really hard.

but you trivialize when Val was dodging the Heat Vision of the guy who rushed him and got judo tossed over to a Red Sun? 'Fraction of Speed of Light' . . . really.

Yes because it is a post crisis Daxamite. They are ludicrously slower than PC Kryptonians. Post Crisis Superman had the reaction time of a good fraction of the speed of light. The average Daxamite is just below him in reaction. Being tossing someone doesn't somehow mean really fast reflexes.

You are also questioning outrunning a fissure that's already almost at it's goal as a valid speed feat.

We never see how far Val is for one aand again, A fissue is slow moving. Someone at CBPH status running as fast as they could can absolutely reach it. Even is he was hypothetically running at the speed of sound it would not make any difference at all verse someone who sees the speed of sound as a statue.

When it moved fast enough to get that far before Val could react and he still was able to outrace it . . .

Unless that Fissure was even remotely close to the speed of light it is little relevance.

I just can't take you seriously anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzHfPN2SC1I

That's funny coming from someone who has shown to be incapable of coming up with an argument that isn't almost instantly refuted by the majority of people in this topic.