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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spear of Bashenga View Post
    Captain America stopped a hate group from commiting a hate crime. Gee, how out of character.

    There's a lot of people who have issues with illegal immigration, most aren't roaming the border attempting to kill people.

    If you're identifying with the people who do that kind of thing, you are straight up a bad guy/woman.

    Yes! Exactly the point. The reader has no choice but to side with the protagonist and what he represents.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyetron View Post
    Yes! Exactly the point. The reader has no choice but to side with the protagonist and what he represents.
    Do most people have a problem with killing illegals? I mean not wanting in the country but killing?

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyetron View Post
    It's because that's exactly what propaganda is. It's designed to influence whose side you're on by giving one-sided or exaggerated messages/circumstances.

    I could maybe appreciate it more if it's actually a tough decision to pick a side (see Civil War comic), but this is a one-sided decision with the protagonist.
    What Sam dealt with was not a one side propaganda situation.

    He could have let SOS kill those folks.

    He could have joined in and killed those folks.

    He could have beaten the SOS and told those folks to go on the America where companies and folks will have no issue hiring them illegally.

    Yet he told them to go back.

    That is not one sided.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlanetaryDevastation View Post
    Do most people have a problem with killing illegals? I mean not wanting in the country but killing?
    It depends on where you live.

    At least in my city-it's a case of "we don't want them living next door to us or their kids in my kid's school."

    We have at least two neighborhoods going to court over it and more than willing to sue the state or the boys in Washington over it.

    The reader has no choice but to side with the protagonist and what he represents.
    No you don't. You as the reader have the right to disagree with the outcome.

  5. #80
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Of Atlantis View Post
    Haven't had the chance to grab the issue yet, but that panel of Redwing's approval rating made me laugh out loud.



    This is my concern too... I really can't stand to read another superhero beef, especially between Steve and Sam. Probably going to make or break the book for me.
    Yeah, I am sort of at the point where I might need a break from the hero vs hero stuff too (even though overall I'm very impressed with how this first issue was handled).

    We JUST got through this massive thing with Steve being in conflict with other heroes in Time Runs Out. I'm uncertain if he's resolved his issues with Stark and we're already going into this thing with Steve and Sam. I don't know... the way it just keeps piling on one hero vs hero conflict after the next, for me at least it's starting to get a bit much.

    Hopefully they'll give poor Steve a break by the time his anniversary comes around.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Yeah, I am sort of at the point where I might need a break from the hero vs hero stuff too (even though overall I'm very impressed with how this first issue was handled).

    We JUST got through this massive thing with Steve being in conflict with other heroes in Time Runs Out. I'm uncertain if he's resolved his issues with Stark and we're already going into this thing with Steve and Sam. I don't know... the way it just keeps piling on one hero vs hero conflict after the next, for me at least it's starting to get a bit much.

    Hopefully they'll give poor Steve a break by the time his anniversary comes around.
    Old Man Steve got super crotchety. It's like they replaced his supersoldier serum with Metamucil spiked with 8 decades of generational bitterness.
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  7. #82
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyetron View Post
    Yes! Exactly the point. The reader has no choice but to side with the protagonist and what he represents.
    It'll be interesting to see what Steve's perspective on this is, as it didn't sound as though him and Sam would be on the same page (though I could be wrong).

    As it's Sam's book I have no doubt he'll come off more sympathetically. Hopefully whatever Steve's perspective is will be equally understandable. I'm all for Sam breaking away from Sam and doing things his way but I don't want Steve getting thrown under the bus in any way to make that happen.

    It's hard to say one way or another at this point since we don't even know exactly why Sam and Steve are at odds.

  8. #83
    Genesis of A Nemesis KOSLOX's Avatar
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    I bet when Steve gets off the airship he says "I consider this my lawn, and I want you ALL OFF OF IT!"
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  9. #84
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spear of Bashenga View Post
    Old Man Steve got super crotchety. It's like they replaced his supersoldier serum with Metamucil spiked with 8 decades of generational bitterness.
    I know Hickman sort of wrote him that way (though really he sort of wrote everyone jerkish towards the end there). I though Remender wrote Steve fairly "normal." I guess we'll find out where Spencer lands in the next issue.

  10. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    It did kinda suck that the Crossbones fight was off panel. If his prediction that he escapes in 2 weeks is true maybe we'll get a.on panel rematch.

    Also liked that Red Wing got a sonic cannon.
    seriously? so who created this, in-universe?

  11. #86
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    Critics of Obama have said, he's not my president. In this issue, a woman said he's not my Captain America. Critics of Obama have called him the socialist in chief. In this issue, a person called Sam captain socialist. I am absolutely 100% positive that next issue, Sam will say angrily about Steve that he is just cleaning up the mess he left behind.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Yeah, I am sort of at the point where I might need a break from the hero vs hero stuff too (even though overall I'm very impressed with how this first issue was handled).

    We JUST got through this massive thing with Steve being in conflict with other heroes in Time Runs Out. I'm uncertain if he's resolved his issues with Stark and we're already going into this thing with Steve and Sam. I don't know... the way it just keeps piling on one hero vs hero conflict after the next, for me at least it's starting to get a bit much.

    Hopefully they'll give poor Steve a break by the time his anniversary comes around.
    Spencer said something really similar to what you did so I think its going to be a complex issue. I don't think its going to be as easy one is right and the other is wrong. Given how crotchety Steve has been shown other places I expect him to be a little lighter here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eyetron View Post
    I didn't think that going in. I picked up the book based on brand name alone (Captain America) and got what seemed like liberal propaganda to me. I initially wrote it off as potentially playing a bigger story about Sam picking a side, but then maybe Steve would help settle him back down eventually. But after reading Spencer's Twitter feed, I now can only expect a political agenda, hence I'm dropping the book. I'm not paying money to read that.
    Bad guys wants to kill innocents. Sam stops them.

    Thats just superhero comics. Anything that sounds like an agenda is from you projecting your views onto the book.

    Quote Originally Posted by No Left Turn View Post
    Not only that, but am I the only one who perceives that Sam Wilson in this book is a stand-in for Barack Obama? Because everything that his critics said about him are the things that Obama's opponents have said about him. More than anything else, that's why I can't keep reading this book, because Obama is not my hero.
    Sam as Barrack? I didn't see that at all. I think there's a lot projection going on here.

  13. #88
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    This was the most suprising one so far. I wasn't expecting this

  14. #89
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    On a completely different thought, a few years ago, when the families of Kirby and Simon we're suing Marvel for the rights to Captain America, couldn't Marvel have just saved themselves the cost of the defense using this version of cap instead? Completely different uniform, completely different alias, completely different backstory, completely different set of powers. I can't imagine that there would ever have been a chance of the plaintiffs prevailing in trying to claim the rights to this version of Captain America.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAINMESS View Post
    This was the most suprising one so far. I wasn't expecting this
    Hope that's good surprise

    Shared this title with some friends who aren't big into Cap or Sam but they all loved this. I got loads of questions about Redwing as well which I found the most surprising.

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