Wonder Woman's Single-Mindedness

[Blacksun]

she believed the boys were nothing but slaves based on her mindset, she didn't stop to think why they hadn't revolted or tried to escape. that's single minded if you ask me. single minded isn't just limited to staying focused on one thing, it also has to do with jumping to conclusions based on bias.

that's for me is quick to jump to conclusions, that can happen with single minded people or no. WW was too sad with the revelation of amazons and tried to do compensate for that.

sin′gle-mind′ed

adj.
1. having or showing a single aim or purpose.
2. dedicated; resolute; steadfast.

[coveredinbees]

This wasnt about WW hearing different opinions and sticking to her own. Or missing the forest for the tree. This is her opening her eyes to something completely unconventional and learning that not everything is what it seems. Here's SUperman learning the same lesson. Go to 3:18:




OMG Superman is single minded too! Like i said, it depends on the story. This is such a generic flaw to have and a thing that every character gets at some point or another.

That doesn't reflect poorly on Superman. I don't see him as single-minded. I see Darkseid as a monster who brainwashed these people through brutality. Darkseid has those people under his control. He should be a Wonder Woman villain. He's the opposite of loving submission.

[Dr. Hurt]

Single-mindedness isn't always a bad thing either. It does have more negative connotations than compassion, so I get what you're saying.

Thank you!

she believed the boys were nothing but slaves based on her mindset, she didn't stop to think why they hadn't revolted or tried to escape. that's single minded if you ask me. single minded isn't just limited to staying focused on one thing, it also has to do with jumping to conclusions based on bias.

And you chose WW to give this flaw? She and Batwoman are the heroes whose whole schtick is taking down bias.

Look, i dont mind WW or any other character acting this way sometimes. It's natural. But this isnt one story written by one writer. WW will be written by multiple writers, most of which will be hacks, or guest star in books where the writer is forced to include her in his story without knowing much about her. And then they're going to use this to define her. Superman or the Flash or even Batman dont have flaws that mess with their work. I mean yes Batman has multiple flaws, but none that affects his work. This flaw makes WW ineffective, difficult to work with, and a loose cannon. And again, this was ok when Graves hurt Trevor, but not ok on an every day basis.

And i will repeat this for effect, she is supposed to be the woman that comes to open our minds to new paths and ways of thinking. How can she be single minded, or tunnel visioned, or rushing to judgements? You guys want her to take Batman's place as the strategist of the JL, but then you go and want her to be like this.

At the end of the day how is this interesting? You read about WW, she sets her mind into doing A, she should have done B, pays for it, but somehow wins the day, the end. Next story, WW is braindead some more, she should have done C,D,E but she only did C. HOW DEEP.

[Dr. Hurt]

That doesn't reflect poorly on SUperman. Darkseid has those people under his control. He should be a Wonder Woman villain. He's the opposite of loving submission.

Darkseid has no mental powers. Those people were clearly raised to accept this kind of life under a despotic ruler and even though it might be Stockholm Syndrome-ish, Superman has to accept their decision. Just like Diana has to accept the Manazons' decision to spend their lives working in an underground blacksmith until they die and Hephaestus gives them a good funeral.

They made the heroes younger in the new52 so that they arent the veterans we used to have, and so that they could learn and grow more. I see nothing wrong with Diana's actions here because almost everyone would assume that the Manazons would want to be free. Just like Superman assumed that DS's underlings would.

As for multitasking and tunnel vision, i see her doing just fine in Azzarello's book, handling all sorts of characters and turning villains and anti-heroes into her allies instead of going Johns-WW and cutting Hera's head off.

[Blacksun]

That doesn't reflect poorly on SUperman. Darkseid has those people under his control. He should be a Wonder Woman villain. He's the opposite of loving submission.

darkseid is more like a DCU villain, but I agree that he should have more stories with WW.
How Superman would know that people worshipped so much darkseid that even freeing them it wouldn't work? he did what most people would do if they could take out a dictator

[kidstandout]

Thank you!

And you chose WW to give this flaw? She and Batwoman are the heroes whose whole schtick is taking down bias.

Look, i dont mind WW or any other character acting this way sometimes. It's natural. But this isnt one story written by one writer. WW will be written by multiple writers, most of which will be hacks, or guest star in books where the writer is forced to include her in his story without knowing much about her. And then they're going to use this to define her. Superman or the Flash or even Batman dont have flaws that mess with their work. I mean yes Batman has multiple flaws, but none that affects his work. This flaw makes WW ineffective, difficult to work with, and a loose cannon. And again, this was ok when Graves hurt Trevor, but not ok on an every day basis.

And i will repeat this for effect, she is supposed to be the woman that comes to open our minds to new paths and ways of thinking. How can she be single minded, or tunnel visioned, or rushing to judgements?

even the most open minded of people have a bias when it comes to justice. on that basis alone i can be ok with WW being single minded in that scenario. otherwise, i see your point

now id agree that the current crop of writers aren't capable of handling this well with ww, but the concept itself isn't to blame

[Lax]

Of course, the villains are the ones who are ultimately culpable. I do consider Corben's death tragic, however, since he was manipulated to take such a foolish risk. I also do not believe Wonder Woman's single-mindedness that prevented her from doing something about Lois prior to Action Comics #32 was the only thing responsible for what happened. Wonder Woman could have possibly gotten a head start on the Brainiac problem if she had consulted with Superman or Veritas right after she heard about Lois's mysterious glowing eyes, but I don't think she would ever have been able to put all the pieces together and devise an effective strategy in time.

The key word for me is "blame". I understand within context you're asking if Wondy could have done more about Lois if she hadn't had such a singular focus on Superman's issues.

For me that question is a moot point when it comes to assigning blame, partial or otherwise. Because these people don't actually owe anybody anything. What they do, they do out of the goodness of their hearts.

I may play Monday morning quarterback after an issue and say "Wondy should have done this!" or "Supes should have done that!" but they'd pretty much have to purposefully screw something up in order for me to blame them for the collateral damage caused while trying to fix a serious problem.

Metallo was collateral damage.

[kidstandout]

that's for me is quick to jump to conclusions, that can happen with single minded people or no. WW was too sad with the revelation of amazons and tried to do compensate for that.

sin′gle-mind′ed

adj.
1. having or showing a single aim or purpose.
2. dedicated; resolute; steadfast.

here are some synonyms; determined, full of determination, hell-bent, committed, unswerving, unwavering, undeviating, resolute, purposeful, set, fixed, devoted, dedicated, uncompromising, persevering, tireless, tenacious, persistent, pertinacious, indefatigable; obsessive, fanatical, dogged, monomaniacal; obstinate, stubborn, unyielding, intransigent, pig-headed, inflexible, obdurate

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us.../single-minded
the bolded can easily be applied to the scenario with hephaestus

[Blacksun]

The key word for me is "blame". I understand within context you're asking if Wondy could have done more about Lois if she hadn't had such a singular focus on Superman's issues.

For me that question is a moot point when it comes to assigning blame, partial or otherwise. Because these people don't actually owe anybody anything. What they do, they do out of the goodness of their hearts.

I may play Monday morning quarterback after an issue and say "Wondy should have done this!" or "Supes should have done that!" but they'd pretty much have to purposefully screw something up in order for me to blame them for the collateral damage caused while trying to fix a serious problem.

Metallo was collateral damage.

the question is no about WW owe Lois, is about ignoring a thing that could be a big problem in the future because WW was to worried about her boyfriend. It's like Dr hurt said, it's not a flaw that I want for my hero. I really doubt WW would ever do this, I mean the WW that Azz writes

here are some synonyms; determined, full of determination, hell-bent, committed, unswerving, unwavering, undeviating, resolute, purposeful, set, fixed, devoted, dedicated, uncompromising, persevering, tireless, tenacious, persistent, pertinacious, indefatigable; obsessive, fanatical, dogged, monomaniacal; obstinate, stubborn, unyielding, intransigent, pig-headed, inflexible, obdurate

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us.../single-minded
the bolded can easily be applied to the scenario with hephaestus

WW is nothing of these adjectives with hephaestus.

[kidstandout]

WW is nothing of these adjectives.

is that what i said? nope. the way she handled the situation up until the manazons confronted her could easily be described as single minded. she never thought they were there of their own free will.

[Dr. Hurt]

I wanted to give you guys an example. In quite a few stories we see Batman beat a villain (usually the Joker) within an inch of his life. Hush and TDKR were such stories. Yet, this never became a thing for him no matter how dark and edgy some kids might want him.

In the Dark Knight movie the Joker abducts Rachel and Batman beats him up (though not too much) during the interrogation. The point of that scene was to show that his usual tactics of fear and brute strength wouldnt work on someone like the Joker who welcomes it. When the latter kills Rachel, Batman just defeats him. No vengeful beat down, no vindictive actions. So every writer can take this character and play with these emotions and situations. Snyder's Batman is different from Morrison's or Nolan's or Brubaker's. The constant thing is of course that Batman is a brooding loner but his responses arent consistent. And the same thing happens to WW. Azzarello's WW hasnt laid a finger on Hera, hasnt mistreated her, hasnt even spoken to her in a bad way, despite taking away her mother and countrywomen. Johns' WW goes ape*** on her teamates because her ex got beat up by a villain. We shouldnt characterize her from a flaw she got in one story, especially when it's such a common thing to happen to people.

To me, being goal driven is a good thing. WW should be someone who will fight to the last breath for a higher purpose. But i dont see her as someone who gets tunnel vision, who jumps to conclusions, or someone who snaps when her loved ones are hurt. All the Leaguers became fighters, she was born into it, raised as a soldier, and i assume leader and general too (due to her position in the Amazon hierarchy). Think of NolanBane's darkness speech "born in it, molded by it", where he makes Batman look like an amateur ninja. When the planet is under attack by a million armies, WW's brain should be flooded by all the things she learnt in Amazon school, all the great tactics she studied, from Alexander, to Caesar, to Napoleon, to Patton and from there, lead the team to victory.

Superman is an amateur fighter with superpowers and you want to give this flaw to WW and not him? Please...

[Dr. Hurt]

here are some synonyms; determined, full of determination, hell-bent, committed, unswerving, unwavering, undeviating, resolute, purposeful, set, fixed, devoted, dedicated, uncompromising, persevering, tireless, tenacious, persistent, pertinacious, indefatigable; obsessive, fanatical, dogged, monomaniacal; obstinate, stubborn, unyielding, intransigent, pig-headed, inflexible, obdurate

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us.../single-minded
the bolded can easily be applied to the scenario with hephaestus

I think in that particular occasion she was naive. But then someone will go and ask "what if WW's flaw is her naivety"? But people arent one dimensional. You can be naive in some issue and cunning on another. See WW "losing" a fight to Artemis to get her on her side. That was cunning.

[kidstandout]

I wanted to give you guys an example. In quite a few stories we see Batman beat a villain (usually the Joker) within an inch of his life. Hush and TDKR were such stories. Yet, this never became a thing for him no matter how dark and edgy some kids might want him.

In the Dark Knight movie the Joker abducts Rachel and Batman beats him up (though not too much) during the interrogation. The point of that scene was to show that his usual tactics of fear and brute strength wouldnt work on someone like the Joker who welcomes it. When the latter kills Rachel, Batman just defeats him. No vengeful beat down, no vindictive actions. So every writer can take this character and play with these emotions and situations. Snyder's Batman is different from Morrison's or Nolan's or Brubaker's. The constant thing is of course that Batman is a brooding loner but his responses arent consistent. And the same thing happens to WW. Azzarello's WW hasnt laid a finger on Hera, hasnt mistreated her, hasnt even spoken to her in a bad way, despite taking away her mother and countrywomen. Johns' WW goes ape*** on her teamates because her ex got beat up by a villain. We shouldnt characterize her from a flaw she got in one story, especially when it's such a common thing to happen to people.

To me, being goal driven is a good thing. WW should be someone who will fight to the last breath for a higher purpose. But i dont see her as someone who gets tunnel vision, who jumps to conclusions, or someone who snaps when her loved ones are hurt. All the Leaguers became fighters, she was born into it, raised as a soldier, and i assume leader and general too (due to her position in the Amazon hierarchy). Think of NolanBane's darkness speech "born in it, molded by it", where he makes Batman look like an amateur ninja. When the planet is under attack by a million armies, WW's brain should be flooded by all the things she learnt in Amazon school, all the great tactics she studied, from Alexander, to Caesar, to Napoleon, to Patton and from there, lead the team to victory.

Superman is an amateur fighter with superpowers and you want to give this flaw to WW and not him? Please...

i get what your saying but azz hasn't exactly upheld the standard your talking about either as evidenced by the manazon scene, how she treated hermes initially after his 'betrayal' and her rant with hyppolita. i'm saying your basis is flawed if your trying to hold azz's run as a standard of not being single minded, despite it having some examples that back up your point. now if you were to say rucka or perez, that would be more solid. but i have to agree with misslane in that ww didn't really appeal to me when she had no character flaws. her having a one track notion of justice isn't exactly ooc anyways, its just her stance that has changed from defensive pacifist to take no prisoners in a back in forth manner, with the latter being too exaggerated and the former being to preachy. i think azz has found a nice balance though

[Dr. Hurt]

i get what your saying but azz hasn't exactly upheld the standard your talking about either as evidenced by the manazon scene, how she treated hermes initially after his 'betrayal' and her rant with hyppolita. i'm saying your basis is flawed if your trying to hold azz's run as a standard of not being single minded, despite it having some examples that back up your point. now if you were to say rucka or perez, that would be more solid. but i have to agree with misslane in that ww didn't really appeal to me when she had no character flaws. her having a one track notion of justice isn't exactly ooc anyways, its just her stance that has changed from defensive pacifist to take no prisoners in a back in forth manner, with the latter being too exaggerated and the former being to preachy. i think azz has found a nice balance though

Having emotions is being single headed?

She eventually accepts Hermes back to her team anyway. She's shown more compassion, negotiative and strategic skill, and cool headedness than in Soule's and Johns' stories combined.

Azzarello isnt writing a veteran after all, he is writing a WW who is learning, who is struggling to reach her goals and who has to reassess as she goes along. Example: She loses herself and goes God Mode against the FB but soon realises her mistake and puts the bracelets back on to try a different approach.

[Lax]

the question is no about WW owe Lois, is about ignoring a thing that could be a big problem in the future because WW was to worried about her boyfriend. It's like Dr hurt said, it's not a flaw that I want for my hero. I really doubt WW would ever do this, I mean the WW that Azz writes

You're not feeling me.

I'm saying I don't blame Wondy for what's happening to Lois. By extension, I don't blame Wondy for Metallo's death. I blame Braniac, Wondy is handling things the best way she sees it.

Just like I don't blame Superman for infecting himself and becoming a danger to the world even though he could have chosen to vaporize Doomsday's spores with heat vision instead of inhaling it. He handled it the best way he saw fit, did it back fire? Yes, but that's life.

Should I also hold Supes partially responsible for his condition keeping Wonder Woman from placing Lois as a higher priority? See how deep that rabbit hole goes?

I give Doomsday and Brainaic the blame for Metallo's death, it was essentially collateral damage.