How to make Superman relevant

[TheDarkKnightReturns]

The one thing they NEED to do is get rid of Lex Luthor as his main villain(which will never happen). It's a makes Superman look terrible. He's an ordinary human with no superpowers that continually outwits Superman and at worst gets into stalemates most of the time. The dynamic makes Superman pretty pathetic, all these powers and too stupid and ineffective to really handle Luthor. It's one of the reasons Superman Returns was terrible. Since there really was no way to have a climax of Supes vs Lex it was Superman vs.....a rock.

What happen to Lex after that ? More Luthor/Wayne interactions ?

[Kal-El Summers]

The one thing they NEED to do is get rid of Lex Luthor as his main villain(which will never happen). It's a makes Superman look terrible. He's an ordinary human with no superpowers that continually outwits Superman and at worst gets into stalemates most of the time. The dynamic makes Superman pretty pathetic, all these powers and too stupid and ineffective to really handle Luthor. It's one of the reasons Superman Returns was terrible. Since there really was no way to have a climax of Supes vs Lex it was Superman vs.....a rock.

This sounds like you don't get the dynamic between the two characters at all. :/

[Ascended]

He's like a person descended from pyramid architects and builders being raised by kind hearted homo habilis, its thematically similar to Tarzan being raised by apes or Mowgli being raised by wolves. Superman would seem like a wild man to other Kryptonians. The few kryptonian survivors would be both horrified by his fate and full of compassion and concern for him. They REALLY dropped the ball with Superman and Supergirl's relationship in the New 52.

That's actually a very good way of looking at it that I hadnt considered before.

I think that, in regards to the intelligence of Krypton, its a moot point. In most versions they're a super smart race. The reasons dont really matter do they? I mean, its not like we require hard science to explain how Superman does what he does, do we really need hard science to back up his people's mental abilities?

Clark Kent's character worked considerably better when he wasn't an advanced biological computer. He was never stupid, but he also wasn't above people either in the brains department. Characters like the Ultra Humanite and Lex Luthor were the smart guys who were better then others.

Clark's strength is his moral character, and his physical powers. He doesn't need to be some super advanced biological computer who is attempting to bring back Krypton. He acts he doesn't need to be thinking 15 moves ahead of other people. Lex schemes and plots, Clark defends. Clark is fine being smart without it going over to the point where his intelligence is just another attribute on his "super power" list.

Well I disagree there. But thats just my personal opinion. I love the idea that Superman's the kind of guy who might be building a time machine in the Fortress while also restoring an original T-bucket Ford.

And what is all this "bringing back Krypton" stuff? I have never seen that be a part of Clark's methodology or motivation (outside of a few rare instances like the Eradicator story from the 80's). He's certainly proud of his heritage, and especially in the Silver Age he embraced many facets of Kryptonian culture, but re-making the planet into New Krypton? Where and when was this because I must have missed it.

The one thing they NEED to do is get rid of Lex Luthor as his main villain(which will never happen). It's a makes Superman look terrible. He's an ordinary human with no superpowers that continually outwits Superman and at worst gets into stalemates most of the time. The dynamic makes Superman pretty pathetic, all these powers and too stupid and ineffective to really handle Luthor. It's one of the reasons Superman Returns was terrible. Since there really was no way to have a climax of Supes vs Lex it was Superman vs.....a rock.

Yeah, thats not what they're about. Superman and Lex are fighting an ideological war for the soul of humanity's future. Its not just about proving that Lex is evil and putting him in jail (which happens all the time, by the way) its about proving Lex wrong on a fundamental level. Lex is the embodiment of every person ever who looked at Superman and (more importantly) what he represents and said "Screw that, I'd rather get ahead and get paid than help my neighbor."

[MaoTenDoo]

This sounds like you don't get the dynamic between the two characters at all. :/

I do. It's that it's so entrenched that most people can't see how it comes off to some, especially casual readers and/or people who might be interested but just can't get into the character

Yeah, thats not what they're about. Superman and Lex are fighting an ideological war for the soul of humanity's future. Its not just about proving that Lex is evil and putting him in jail (which happens all the time, by the way) its about proving Lex wrong on a fundamental level. Lex is the embodiment of every person ever who looked at Superman and (more importantly) what he represents and said "Screw that, I'd rather get ahead and get paid than help my neighbor."

Yes that can be and has been a direction the dynamic has be used at times but it's just a sliver in their history. The power dynamic is so uneven it still does no favors for Clark in any incarnation of their struggle. It's an awkward dynamic having the hero infinitely more powerful than his main enemy.

[Flash Gordon]

That's just underestimating Lex Luthor, and besides not every enemy has to just lead to a cage match. Sometimes it's much, much deeper than "knocking him out".

[MaoTenDoo]

That's just underestimating Lex Luthor, and besides not every enemy has to just lead to a cage match. Sometimes it's much, much deeper than "knocking him out".

That's my point exactly. Lex Luthor is a great character. Why? Bc he's a normal human being who basically goes toe to toe with Superman. That's why people love him and he's a great villain. Unfortunately the dynamic makes him look good, Supes not so much. And yes, it does go much deeper and should at times besides a slug fest but the reality is that Lex should not be a threat to Clark. Of course we like that he is and that's why he's such a famous character. Bc we're human and so is he and he goes up against Clark and that's why he's so much more interesting to people and it hurts the character of Superman.

It's the same reason most people love the trope of Bruce always defeating Clark, bc it's interesting seeing the underdog with no power finding a way to win. Problem is, it just makes the powerful one look pretty bad,

[Ascended]

Seems to me like that's less an issue with their dynamic and more an issue with Superman getting crap writers.

Batman is more powerful than the Joker. He's an infinitely better fighter. Has better gear. More resources. He's just as smart. He is, on virtually every level, Joker's clear superior. Joker's no slouch in the brains department, and his unpredictability is always an advantage (well, more like a superpower in the hands of some writers) but no one complains about how uneven their rivalry is. And Joker has about as much chance of actually killing Batman as Lex does Superman. Lex has access to kryptonite, even wore some on his hand for years (I miss that) and often employs minions or technology that can hurt Clark.

Again, its not Lex, its the writers.

I will agree that making the Superman-Lex rivalry work requires a little more effort than most, but it can and has been done extremely well by many, many people across many formats. You just need a hook where Lex is capable of getting away with his scheme. Most of the time all that boils down to is Lex throwing enough money around so he avoids legal consequences. Superman wont kill him or exile him to the Zone because of the higher stakes they're playing for (not to mention his morality) so Lex spending a couple nights in jail before the charges are dropped is, really, not that different from Joker getting tossed into Arkham until he decides to escape again.

As for the opinions of the uneducated masses, ignorance is not something you can cure with an unwilling patient. They'll say what they will about the character regardless of the facts.

[Francisco]

Lex Luthor has never been a normal human. He is a super genius. He is human in the sense that a bullet could kill him and that he needs air, water and food to live. But his mind is far above and beyond to any human that has ever lived. That's the reason he is Superman, Kal El, Clark Kent's nemesis.

[Kal-El Summers]

I do. It's that it's so entrenched that most people can't see how it comes off to some, especially casual readers and/or people who might be interested but just can't get into the character

Like Ascended said, that's a writer-issue, not an issue of the characters. Focusing on Kal having powers while Lex is a non-powered human is just being willfully blind.

[llozymandias]

Lex Luthor has never been a normal human. He is a super genius. He is human in the sense that a bullet could kill him and that he needs air, water and food to live. But his mind is far above and beyond to any human that has ever lived. That's the reason he is Superman, Kal El, Clark Kent's nemesis.

Total agreement here. I imagine Lex seeing his being human as a mere accident of birth.

[Steven Ely]

This sounds like you don't get the dynamic between the two characters at all. :/

Bingo. There's nothing wrong with Luthor being the arch enemy. He don't really outwit Superman in my comics and make Superman look dumb. Superman defeated his every attack.

[Jim Kelly]

I would guess that a lot of Americans and Canadians, as well as assorted people in the rest of the world have a good idea of who Superman is, from their own understanding of the character. So that Superman is relevant for them. And this comes out on a regular basis as people draw on Superman for either comical references or for truly inspiring acts of heroism.

To "make" Superman relevant all you have to do is consult this common knowledge in the Zeitgeist.

DC doesn't do this, because they are not about making Superman relevant. For the comic books, they want a Superman that pulls the correct strings for the niche market. Going against type is one of those strings. For the movies, it's important to stir up anger on the internet, to get free publicity for your movie.

This produces the odd result that everyone knows who Superman is, but that Superman is not to be found in the commercial product. This tends to make Superman seem like a folk hero, rather than a fabricated corporate property.

I don't go along with the idea that comic book characters are the modern day equivalent of mythology and folklore--to say that is to misunderstand comic books as well as mythology and folklore. But the fact that we have some kind of public ownership of Superman, that defies the interests of the entertainment industry, does resemble how folklore and mythology used to work for the common people

[Totoro Man]

I can't speak for others-- but I used the term "pop mythology" deliberately. as you say, modern pop culture narratives are not the same thing as folklore or mythology. they (myths) were created with different intentions and served different cultural purposes when compared to modern comics. there is no modern day "equivalent" - and if we place an emphasis on oral transmission then new folklore and myths are impossible in technology based societies with an emphasis on written communication. the lack of anonymity in comics authorship would also make it impossible for them to qualify as folk narrative or myth.

but that doesn't mean that these newer characters and narratives can't serve a similar purpose when taken as a whole. they will continue to reflect values, inspire others, and have the potential to meditate on purpose.

Sherlock Holmes, for example, is as easily recognized as Robin Hood for most people I know. he was also clearly a commercial property designed to entertain. but over time his narratives have taken on a sort of life all their own--and helped reflect/shape certain cultural values for the readership. I think he's slowly evolving into a folk literary character with

I think the only reason Superman (and Batman) haven't become folk literary characters yet is because somebody still owns the legal rights to those properties. given time, I think Superman has the potential to become a folkloric-level character like King Arthur, Robin Hood, Momotaro, or Sun Wukong.