Any news on DC's magic books?

[whitewolf]

I just wanted to touch on the whole magic should or should not have rules debate. I think the Dresden Files does a really good job of giving magic logical rules to work with, without taking the magic out of it. For example, if Dresden throws a ball of fire at a vampire then he has to worry about the fire spreading. Magic might have created the fire, but it's still fire and has to obey the natural laws that governs how fire works.

[BookOfPureEvil]

Not to mention, it was quite possibly the best Doctor Strange comic in almost 20 years, IMHO.

New Avengers Annual (2014) is underrated.

[Ragdoll]

The magic universe is showing up in full force in secret six this week. A hodgepodge of DC's supernatural gather in a new arc centered around a ailing Black Alice and her affliction's effect on the magic universe. Looking at the solicits dropped this week, this will wrap up by January. So you'll have your fix for a good four months at least.

That was a great issue, I was glad to see Swamp Thing. Didn't Justice League United kill Swamp Thing recently?

[FanboyStranger]

New Avengers Annual (2014) is underrated.

Yeah, it was a very good story. Reminded me of the Dr Strange: Into Shamballa OGN by DeMatteis and Dan Green.

[Deniz Camp]

Marco Rudy was a perfect Dr. Strange artist, and extremely passionate about the character. No doubt he's up as second artist on Dr. Strange's ongoing.

I'd like to see Genevieve Valentine, China Mieville, or Tom King do a proto-vertigo style magic book. I wonder if DC might be able to tap into some of their Vertigo talent, like Shaun Simon or Lauren Beukes, as well.

[Deniz Camp]

Artistically I'd like someone who was heavily symoblic in their cartooning and layouts; a Greg Smallwood, Francis Manapul, Declan Shalvey, Burham, Kuder, Wes Craig, etc. Someone who is interested creating a visual language for magic, and their world.

[Savage Savant]

DC actually had Michael Moorcock develop a "magic bible" for them around a decade ago. It was never really implemented, but it would be interesting to see what was in there. Moorcock, obviously, is a major name in fantasy, and it wouldn't hurt having his name associated with books that have a marginal appeal.

Personally, though, I think the only rule for magic needs to be that it is explored in imaginative ways. One of the major problems with a character like Dr Fate is that he/she has limitless potential but is relegated to tossing around anhk shaped energy blasts. Similiarly, outside of his own book, Dr Strange just tossed around "bolts of bedevilment", a phrase that may have appeared as often as the word "the" in the old Defenders series.

Huge missed opportunity IMO. Moorcock is one of the all time GOATs in Sci-Fi & Fantasy & if DC would've implemented the magic bible Moorcock created for them it would've not only give them bragging rights for having one of the GOATs exlain magic in the DCU, but it would've also perhaps provided DC with some framework for magic that's imaginative & fairly understandable. I wonder why they never followed through with it?

Also, I believe Moorcock's Elric is a great example of how magic can work. I mean Elric was a powerful sorcerer but his magic was very complex & took time. Plus since he was an albino, working sorcery would take a tremendous amount of effort that would often times leave him fatigued.

[t hedge coke]

They did implement it for awhile. Same length, in a sense, they tried implementing all those notebooks from Morrison, etc. Or anyone's bible.

It didn't stick because writers on different books, generally, want to write their own material.

Personally, and I love a lot of Moorcock, I don't think his very very debt-based magic schema for DC was all that hot stuff. "Magic should have serious costs," isn't what I'm reading stories with magic in them for. It's not even something I really believe politically/socially, in terms of a generalist principle. The Elric stuff, most of his earlier woe-the-cost stuff seems so laughable to me, that I'm fine with it as parody or farce, but I can't take it seriously the way I can take the solid comedy and good times of later Jerry Cornelius or his Blood trilogy.

It's a good tool for some stories, but not all. I'm glad he got paid for it. I'm glad if someone got some good comics out of it. But it shouldn't be applied to all their comics for decades or anything like that.

[Deniz Camp]

Keith Giffen implemented it, in Reign in Hell. The results were pretty mediocre, though I don't blame the rules for that.

That said, I think the idea of a 'magic rulebook' to be so reductive that it extracts and destroys the function of 'magic' entirely.

You can read some of my thoughts here: http://heshouldreallyknowbetter.blog...ague-dark.html

[t hedge coke]

Keith Giffen implemented it, in Reign in Hell. The results were pretty mediocre, though I don't blame the rules for that.

I shouldn't blame it, but that's the one Giffen thing that just numbed me completely, that I couldn't even find much of a point to, so I have to blame that on something other than "well, Giffen flopped that time."

Otherwise, they'd take away my keen Keith Giffen Superfan Pin and Decoder Ring, and man, those are swanky.

[Deniz Camp]

I shouldn't blame it, but that's the one Giffen thing that just numbed me completely, that I couldn't even find much of a point to, so I have to blame that on something other than "well, Giffen flopped that time."

Otherwise, they'd take away my keen Keith Giffen Superfan Pin and Decoder Ring, and man, those are swanky.

I think it was an example of many of his proclivities gone a bit out of control; primarily the focus on world building and plot movement over character development. Sometimes he reins it in (pun most definitely intended), and others he's given a writing partner to do that other portion of the work. "Reign" struck me as overly technical, almost. It wore it's mandate - to reform and structure magical rules - on its sleeve.

[FanboyStranger]

They did implement it for awhile. Same length, in a sense, they tried implementing all those notebooks from Morrison, etc. Or anyone's bible.

It didn't stick because writers on different books, generally, want to write their own material.

Personally, and I love a lot of Moorcock, I don't think his very very debt-based magic schema for DC was all that hot stuff. "Magic should have serious costs," isn't what I'm reading stories with magic in them for. It's not even something I really believe politically/socially, in terms of a generalist principle. The Elric stuff, most of his earlier woe-the-cost stuff seems so laughable to me, that I'm fine with it as parody or farce, but I can't take it seriously the way I can take the solid comedy and good times of later Jerry Cornelius or his Blood trilogy.

It's a good tool for some stories, but not all. I'm glad he got paid for it. I'm glad if someone got some good comics out of it. But it shouldn't be applied to all their comics for decades or anything like that.

I think what most people miss when they consider the Elric stories is that they are supposed to be viewed as farce. He is an impotent being raised high by capricious beings that he doesn't understand. He is the proverbial wrong guy in the right moment, and none of his personal actions amount to anything unless he invokes a higher being. The early stuff isn't quite as obvious, but after you've read a bit... Elric's a schlub who is in the right place at the right time. He's the anti-Conan. He's an anti-agent. He's just something for forces we don't understand to act upon.

Tell me that's not most magical beings in the DCU. They sorta understand what they're doing, but they can't comprehend the ultimate universal impact. It's not even debt based, but that the cost is beyond our understanding. That's what Gaiman played with in Sandman-- we kinda knew the costs if we had read classical literature, but in the end, we only understood what we could comprehend. It's Constantine walking away alive when everyone he knows is dead because he didn't understand the full scope of what he was doing.

Beats "Bolts of Bedevilment" any day. There are rules, but you can't quite understand them, much like Elric.

[FanboyStranger]

I think it was an example of many of his proclivities gone a bit out of control; primarily the focus on world building and plot movement over character development. Sometimes he reins it in (pun most definitely intended), and others he's given a writing partner to do that other portion of the work. "Reign" struck me as overly technical, almost. It wore it's mandate - to reform and structure magical rules - on its sleeve.

It was-- to coin a phrase-- "work for hire". He got hired to implement some of Moorcock's ideas, and he did. It was a lameduck exercise, and despite Giffen's efforts to portray himself as a maverick, he's a guy who gets the job done, whether it matters or not. Can't fault him, but it was a lost opportunity.

[bholderman]

The magic universe is showing up in full force in secret six this week. A hodgepodge of DC's supernatural gather in a new arc centered around a ailing Black Alice and her affliction's effect on the magic universe. Looking at the solicits dropped this week, this will wrap up by January. So you'll have your fix for a good four months at least.

This thread immediately popped into my head as I read Secret Six. I don't know how to configure the spoiler window everyone uses, so I will keep my comment simple. The implications that the latest S6 nearly answers the original posters question. Maybe the lack of magic books comes from the outcome of the current storyline?

[HsssH]

That was a great issue, I was glad to see Swamp Thing. Didn't Justice League United kill Swamp Thing recently?

No, he grew back as a plant that Ivy communicated with and revealed weak point of the Breaker. That was the reason why he was picked - get absorbed, grow back and reveal critical information.

It was-- to coin a phrase-- "work for hire". He got hired to implement some of Moorcock's ideas, and he did. It was a lameduck exercise, and despite Giffen's efforts to portray himself as a maverick, he's a guy who gets the job done, whether it matters or not. Can't fault him, but it was a lost opportunity.

Wasn't he exclusive by that time? I'd expect something more from such people than "work for hire".