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  1. #1321
    Extraordinary Member Hiromi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    WAs it closed? Lin's fellow cops had to have come from somewhere
    Assumedly, we only know about it from Toph mentioning it during Operation Beifong(in the past tense) so the exact story behind it is unknown.

  2. #1322
    nice to meet ya! master of read's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    Oh Bolin. You'd better not screw things up with Opal again. Otherwise Lin, Su, AND Toph will have "words" with you. That's the mother of all terrifying prospects.
    why do i find that prospect..........strangely arousing?

  3. #1323
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xalfrea View Post
    Yeah, I'm stunned. Dickdelodeon was actually SUPPORTIVE of what Bryke intended for Korra and Asami, lack of a kiss aside.

    So despite their network douchebaggery, I suppose credit can be given where it's due.
    They were supportive of it in the least possible way. "Oh yeah you can make them bi just don't have it said onscreen or have them kiss or anything. Oh and I guess you can confirm it in interviews since the show is already ended."

    But still this was a massive step in the right direction and I was really shocked they went that route. I'm really proud of the crew behind the show!

  4. #1324
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    Part of the fun of the finale was watching the reaction from Korrasami shippers:



    I can understand their joy and shock because when has a slash pairing(albeit a popular one) ever been made canon?
    Last edited by IfThisBemyDestiny; 12-24-2014 at 09:02 PM.

  5. #1325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    They were supportive of it in the least possible way. "Oh yeah you can make them bi just don't have it said onscreen or have them kiss or anything. Oh and I guess you can confirm it in interviews since the show is already ended."

    But still this was a massive step in the right direction and I was really shocked they went that route. I'm really proud of the crew behind the show!
    If this was not handled by nickolodean we would have more than thirteen episodes each and some LGBT rated romance.

  6. #1326
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IfThisBemyDestiny View Post
    Part of the fun of the finale was watching the reaction from Korrasami shippers:



    I can understand their joy and shock because when has a slash pairing(albeit a popular one) ever been made canon?
    Wow their are a lot of minorities that watch this show.
    #ReleasetheMillerCut, #ZackSnyderistheBlueprint, #ReleasetheAyerCut

  7. #1327
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    Wow their are a lot of minorities that watch this show.
    Where do you live, Mayberry?

    But yes the diversity of the fanbase is pretty cool:

    Last edited by IfThisBemyDestiny; 12-24-2014 at 11:16 PM.

  8. #1328
    Hold your machete tight! Personamanx's Avatar
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    Merry Seventh day of KorrAsami being canon.

  9. #1329
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    Okay so first, yay, I basically really enjoyed the finale and was completely surprised and delighted by the final two minutes.

    That out of the way, dudes, you're all killing me with your Book 2 hatred. I mean, fine, you're all gonna throw cabbages at me, I'm sure, but I honestly think it's got a ton of great stuff and it's probably my favourite finale. So, with no expectation that I'll actually change anyone's minds, I'm totally gonna try and explain why anyway:

    Part of why I feel this way is that I really didn't like Book 1. I thought the Equalists were awful (not in premise but in execution), I hated the love triangle (I appreciated that they didn't throw Asami under a bus, but everything else about it was a complete cliche) and Korra's spiritual arc felt totally unearned. She got her bending back because, uh, we have five minutes of the show left.

    I feel like most of the stuff people don't like in Book 2 is stuff they feel was a rehash of Book 1, except I feel more like it was an apology for handling it poorly in Book 1, and a do-over that, while often not perfect, is still way better.

    I also think there's a bunch of really great stuff in Book 2 that people tend to gloss over. I see a lot of, "Book 2 is terrible except for the Wan episodes," or "except for Varrick," or "except for Aang's kids."

    So here's a list of stuff I either think was straight up great or at least a much better than it was in Book 1:

    1) The character stuff with Aang's kids and their interactions. This was also a much more poignant and emotionally effective take on what it's like to be a non-Bender among Benders.

    2) Jinora's spiritual development. It was interesting, unexpected, and a lovely throw back to the age-range of the heroes in ATLA. The moment where she's the one who shows up to help Korra at the end was triumphant, earned and lovely. I found something genuinely uplifting in giving that role to a "little sister" figure, too.

    3) Varrick! I mean, come on, he's hysterical, people love him and his Book 2 stuff is why. Totally a break out character.

    4) Related to the above, the humour, generally, was just SO much better. The first Korra Book had Bolin as the funny guy, but other than that it's basically "Ahahaaaa, Meelo farted." But in Book 2 we get stuff like Bolin in the movers, which is hilarious, but also made for a great action set-piece at the end when he saves the President to the backdrop of his own movie. Along with Eska and Desna, better and more surrealistic use of Meelo and the introduction of Bumi, I feel like there was a lot of genuinely funny stuff that felt a lot more authentic to the Avatar universe.

    5) The Avatar Wan episodes. Nuff said.

    6) Korra goes on a vision quest! I think I'd've been a lot more annoyed with the Wan stuff if Korra's spiritual arc had involved her being largely absent, but it doesn't, because straight after those episodes we dive into her big Spirit World journey, guided by Jinora, meeting Uncle Iroh, etc.. It's exactly the type of thing I thought she needed to justify getting in touch with her Avatar state in the first Book, but we never got.

    7) The Love Triangle. Yeah, I hate it, but this time I'm supposed to. Until now I was never totally confident that I was right about the take-home message, but now it's clear I was right to suspect it was them putting the issue to bed forever. The point was that it was terrible and no one should be dating Mako. The end of it was subversive because it looked at the cliche it had pushed the characters into and went, "Wait, this is toxic. Do not do this." As opposed to Book 1 which milked the cliche unironically for drama.

    8) The political set up. Was the Water Tribe civil war perfectly explained? No. But I think it was handled far better than the Equalist situation. I think people maybe don't see that because the Equalist thing is an idea we immediately understand would be an issue in the world. But I think that made them lazy. They didn't actually explain or explore anything or follow it up. They actually tried to explain the Water Tribe's political situation and the complexities involved. Again: not perfect, and I did have some flashbacks to the first season's two-dimensional approach to politics, but it was definitely better.

    8) Korra being a brat. I'm not against her starting out as headstrong, impulsive and sometimes kind of a jerk. The problem was in Book 1 that it wasn't for reasons that were sympathetic. She honestly came across as a bully once or twice. It's not perfect in Book 2, but when she makes bad decisions, or gets angry at people for not doing what she wants, I get why. The personal dramas she has going on (fear of screwing up like she did in the first Book by being too hot-headed, followed by her nation being at war) explain it in a way Book 1 never managed to. It's not necessarily pleasant, but it feels purposeful, and it's also mostly gone by the back end of the season.

    9) Unalaq. Yes! I liked him as a villain! The best villain ever? Well no, obviously not, but I like that he had valid points, and I like that I felt people reacted to him in rational ways. When Korra believes him in the beginning, it's because he's saying things that sound sensible. But this doesn't get dragged out beyond the point of reasonable believability and by the halfway point, she's worked out what he's about. Still, ultimately, she agrees with him about the Spirit Portals. In the end, Korra chooses a benign way to enact Unalaq's goals, which I find interesting.

    10) Korra's spiritual arc feels earned. To me, at least. She goes through a period of questioning herself at the start, followed by an actual inner spiritual quest, and finally has to genuinely fight her way through a "lowest point" when she is separated from Raava, leaving Korra, alone, to keep fighting and to take back that power. She fixes herself in a much more emotionally satisfying way than Book 1 because we see her go through a brutal battle to get it. She restarts the Avatar cycle in a way that makes me feel the series earned the use of the word "Legend" in its title.

    I mean, there are things I wish they'd done differently. I wish Asami and Lin had more to do. In general, Book 3 is better on an episode by episode basis, and certainly it's where the show just explodes into foregrounding women. Regardless of where it ultimately went (though I am in favour of the ending we got!) I am enormously in favour of the love triangle's emotional fallout being friendship between the two women originally set up as rivals and that's another great thing about Book 3.

    But I do legitimately love the narrative arc of the second Book.

    When people complain about the way Korra's final felt less epic than Aang's it makes me think about how they were fundamentally structured differently. Aang's spiritual awakening took three Books and was planned to from the start. On the other hand, Korra tells linked, but discrete stories. We can blame Nickelodeon or the writers, I guess, and I certainly don't think it was necessarily as well-executed as it could have been, but there's nothing conceptually wrong with this approach.

    I still prefer ATLA to LOK (though I do love LOK) and that's because I love the big spiritual stuff, which is probably part of why I like Book 2 more than a lot of people. Sure I wish it had had more time to develop or more build up - but I'm not sure I wish they'd saved it for Book 4 either.

    Aang changes the world but we don't really get a chance to see it. We see the changes he ultimately brought about either in the comics or in the inferences we can draw from Korra's story. On the other hand, Korra gets her epic spiritual apocalypse right in the middle of her series. She changes the world and we spent the entire last half of her story watching her deal with the consequences of her actions. I think that's a really cool idea.

    With the consequences of opening up the Spirit Portals permanently.

    With the consequences of restarting the Avatar Cycle and having to deal with this stuff solo because her past lives are gone.

    I know some read the loss of her past lives as a tragedy and a sign of failure, but I read it as an explanation of the fact this is the "Legend" of Korra. No Avatar since Wan had to deal with Vaatu. It was the end of one age and the beginning of a new one. Korra ensured it was reborn in light. Korra became the new First Avatar. The new Wan. In 10,000 years, it will be a completely different Avatar facing down Vaatu, searching his or her soul for the lost dream-memories of Korra's life, making apocalyptic choices about the way the next Avatar cycle will proceed.

    So yeah.

    Book 2: Really not that bad? ?

  10. #1330
    nice to meet ya! master of read's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toastedbread View Post
    Okay so first, yay, I basically really enjoyed the finale and was completely surprised and delighted by the final two minutes.

    That out of the way, dudes, you're all killing me with your Book 2 hatred. I mean, fine, you're all gonna throw cabbages at me, I'm sure, but I honestly think it's got a ton of great stuff and it's probably my favourite finale. So, with no expectation that I'll actually change anyone's minds, I'm totally gonna try and explain why anyway:

    Part of why I feel this way is that I really didn't like Book 1. I thought the Equalists were awful (not in premise but in execution), I hated the love triangle (I appreciated that they didn't throw Asami under a bus, but everything else about it was a complete cliche) and Korra's spiritual arc felt totally unearned. She got her bending back because, uh, we have five minutes of the show left.

    I feel like most of the stuff people don't like in Book 2 is stuff they feel was a rehash of Book 1, except I feel more like it was an apology for handling it poorly in Book 1, and a do-over that, while often not perfect, is still way better.

    I also think there's a bunch of really great stuff in Book 2 that people tend to gloss over. I see a lot of, "Book 2 is terrible except for the Wan episodes," or "except for Varrick," or "except for Aang's kids."

    So here's a list of stuff I either think was straight up great or at least a much better than it was in Book 1:

    1) The character stuff with Aang's kids and their interactions. This was also a much more poignant and emotionally effective take on what it's like to be a non-Bender among Benders.

    2) Jinora's spiritual development. It was interesting, unexpected, and a lovely throw back to the age-range of the heroes in ATLA. The moment where she's the one who shows up to help Korra at the end was triumphant, earned and lovely. I found something genuinely uplifting in giving that role to a "little sister" figure, too.

    3) Varrick! I mean, come on, he's hysterical, people love him and his Book 2 stuff is why. Totally a break out character.

    4) Related to the above, the humour, generally, was just SO much better. The first Korra Book had Bolin as the funny guy, but other than that it's basically "Ahahaaaa, Meelo farted." But in Book 2 we get stuff like Bolin in the movers, which is hilarious, but also made for a great action set-piece at the end when he saves the President to the backdrop of his own movie. Along with Eska and Desna, better and more surrealistic use of Meelo and the introduction of Bumi, I feel like there was a lot of genuinely funny stuff that felt a lot more authentic to the Avatar universe.

    5) The Avatar Wan episodes. Nuff said.

    6) Korra goes on a vision quest! I think I'd've been a lot more annoyed with the Wan stuff if Korra's spiritual arc had involved her being largely absent, but it doesn't, because straight after those episodes we dive into her big Spirit World journey, guided by Jinora, meeting Uncle Iroh, etc.. It's exactly the type of thing I thought she needed to justify getting in touch with her Avatar state in the first Book, but we never got.

    7) The Love Triangle. Yeah, I hate it, but this time I'm supposed to. Until now I was never totally confident that I was right about the take-home message, but now it's clear I was right to suspect it was them putting the issue to bed forever. The point was that it was terrible and no one should be dating Mako. The end of it was subversive because it looked at the cliche it had pushed the characters into and went, "Wait, this is toxic. Do not do this." As opposed to Book 1 which milked the cliche unironically for drama.

    8) The political set up. Was the Water Tribe civil war perfectly explained? No. But I think it was handled far better than the Equalist situation. I think people maybe don't see that because the Equalist thing is an idea we immediately understand would be an issue in the world. But I think that made them lazy. They didn't actually explain or explore anything or follow it up. They actually tried to explain the Water Tribe's political situation and the complexities involved. Again: not perfect, and I did have some flashbacks to the first season's two-dimensional approach to politics, but it was definitely better.

    8) Korra being a brat. I'm not against her starting out as headstrong, impulsive and sometimes kind of a jerk. The problem was in Book 1 that it wasn't for reasons that were sympathetic. She honestly came across as a bully once or twice. It's not perfect in Book 2, but when she makes bad decisions, or gets angry at people for not doing what she wants, I get why. The personal dramas she has going on (fear of screwing up like she did in the first Book by being too hot-headed, followed by her nation being at war) explain it in a way Book 1 never managed to. It's not necessarily pleasant, but it feels purposeful, and it's also mostly gone by the back end of the season.

    9) Unalaq. Yes! I liked him as a villain! The best villain ever? Well no, obviously not, but I like that he had valid points, and I like that I felt people reacted to him in rational ways. When Korra believes him in the beginning, it's because he's saying things that sound sensible. But this doesn't get dragged out beyond the point of reasonable believability and by the halfway point, she's worked out what he's about. Still, ultimately, she agrees with him about the Spirit Portals. In the end, Korra chooses a benign way to enact Unalaq's goals, which I find interesting.

    10) Korra's spiritual arc feels earned. To me, at least. She goes through a period of questioning herself at the start, followed by an actual inner spiritual quest, and finally has to genuinely fight her way through a "lowest point" when she is separated from Raava, leaving Korra, alone, to keep fighting and to take back that power. She fixes herself in a much more emotionally satisfying way than Book 1 because we see her go through a brutal battle to get it. She restarts the Avatar cycle in a way that makes me feel the series earned the use of the word "Legend" in its title.

    I mean, there are things I wish they'd done differently. I wish Asami and Lin had more to do. In general, Book 3 is better on an episode by episode basis, and certainly it's where the show just explodes into foregrounding women. Regardless of where it ultimately went (though I am in favour of the ending we got!) I am enormously in favour of the love triangle's emotional fallout being friendship between the two women originally set up as rivals and that's another great thing about Book 3.

    But I do legitimately love the narrative arc of the second Book.

    When people complain about the way Korra's final felt less epic than Aang's it makes me think about how they were fundamentally structured differently. Aang's spiritual awakening took three Books and was planned to from the start. On the other hand, Korra tells linked, but discrete stories. We can blame Nickelodeon or the writers, I guess, and I certainly don't think it was necessarily as well-executed as it could have been, but there's nothing conceptually wrong with this approach.

    I still prefer ATLA to LOK (though I do love LOK) and that's because I love the big spiritual stuff, which is probably part of why I like Book 2 more than a lot of people. Sure I wish it had had more time to develop or more build up - but I'm not sure I wish they'd saved it for Book 4 either.

    Aang changes the world but we don't really get a chance to see it. We see the changes he ultimately brought about either in the comics or in the inferences we can draw from Korra's story. On the other hand, Korra gets her epic spiritual apocalypse right in the middle of her series. She changes the world and we spent the entire last half of her story watching her deal with the consequences of her actions. I think that's a really cool idea.

    With the consequences of opening up the Spirit Portals permanently.

    With the consequences of restarting the Avatar Cycle and having to deal with this stuff solo because her past lives are gone.

    I know some read the loss of her past lives as a tragedy and a sign of failure, but I read it as an explanation of the fact this is the "Legend" of Korra. No Avatar since Wan had to deal with Vaatu. It was the end of one age and the beginning of a new one. Korra ensured it was reborn in light. Korra became the new First Avatar. The new Wan. In 10,000 years, it will be a completely different Avatar facing down Vaatu, searching his or her soul for the lost dream-memories of Korra's life, making apocalyptic choices about the way the next Avatar cycle will proceed.

    So yeah.

    Book 2: Really not that bad? ?
    i gotta admit, you do present a good case.

  11. #1331
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    I've always said that Book Two had a good beginning, a good end, and the Wan thing was fantastic. It's just that the middle dragged. And yes, Book One is stronger imo. And there was a good idea in Unalaq's character, but the execution was lacking. Amon>Unalaq (even the Book Four clip show episode was hilarious with it's Unalaq mocking). And yes, I was fine with Aang not being the perfect dad as well. It was an interesting, and perfectly believable, aspect of his character. While Bryke are not blameless in Book Two's problems, they made some missteps, quite a bit of Book Two's problems also lie with Nickelodeon.

    And no, the Korrasami thing would not have been more explicit/obvious if the show was on another network because the same obstacles to showing an LGBT romance would still have been there. The fact that they got away with it at all was surprising (pleasantly so, but still surprising).

  12. #1332
    Hold your machete tight! Personamanx's Avatar
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    If I'm being honest I would say that only Book One of Korra was not better than all of the three books of the original series.

  13. #1333
    Astonishing Member Xalfrea's Avatar
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    Personally I see Book Two not as the "worst" of Korra, but the "least good" of Korra. It had many good things, good ideas, introducing good characters, and good moments. Its flaws mostly stem from forcing resets and questionable choices on certain characters personalities.

  14. #1334
    Rachel Grey-Summers Sardorim's Avatar
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    Korra x Asami...

    Nothing between Book 1-3.

    Forced them together in Book 4 and even than they barely had screen time together.

    They teased Mako x Korra between Book 1-4. If Korra x Asami had that I would support it however it didn't. It's even worse than Naruto x Hinata which was forced through a movie despite Naruto x Sakura being pushed since the Naruto series started.

    Seems to me that they caved to a vocal fanbase and made a slash pairing canon, despite little to no development for it, because Mako (Sakura) weren't as liked for the main protagonist.
    Last edited by Sardorim; 12-25-2014 at 11:07 PM.

  15. #1335
    Fantastic Member General Nerditry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Personamanx View Post
    If I'm being honest I would say that only Book One of Korra was not better than all of the three books of the original series.
    If I'm being honest, I could not disagree more. I liked Korra a lot, but it's not even close to the best of the original series.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sardorim View Post
    Korra x Asami...

    Nothing between Book 1-3.

    Forced them together in Book 4 and even than they barely had screen time together.

    They teased Mako x Korra between Book 1-4. If Korra x Asami had that I would support it however it didn't. It's even worse than Naruto x Hinata which was forced through a movie despite Naruto x Sakura being pushed since the Naruto series started.

    Seems to me that they caved to a vocal fanbase and made a slash pairing canon, despite little to no development for it, because Mako (Sakura) weren't as liked for the main protagonist.
    I don't think they caved to the fanbase. It's just unfortunate that the limitations they faced presented them from properly developing the relationship onscreen like any of the others, and the execution suffers a bit from it.

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