All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!

[king mob]

I saw a Griffin quote in the Metro: whining that people told him they were voting UKIP instead of BNP because there was more of a chance that UKIP would get and, quoth him, send them all back home. But they won't be doing that, he shrieked, it's a fib!

He's right too, UKIP haven't got a policy of mass deportations and "encouraging" people to go back to their "homelands". If people are voting - and joining - because they do think that, the party are cruising for a PR bruising.

This is the thing, people are voting UKIP because they see UKIP as the party that would 'send them back where they came from'. It's been widely reported this is the case but it's barely scratched them because it's the Mirror and Guardian. When The Scum did it, it seemed to hit.

What's going to hurt UKIP are their policies. That manifesto launch in September is going to be worth watching because Farage is going to be under the sort of scrutiny he should have been years ago.

[king mob]

The EU as it exists will not work. The common currency prevents some countries to inflate out of bad spending, and the countries that are fiscally sane like Finland, Netherlands, and Germany will not stand up forever to pay for Europeans who refuse to pay enough taxes to be at least close to what the public sector spending is. Some of the more right parties capitalized on this, since the traditional right of center parties didnt want to risk being totally anti-EU. As soon as the mainstream party states that they want to disengage from the EU and actually walk the line, a lot of the far right parties will loose the support. Secondly it is a natural reaction when you have heavy immigration and the outright refusal to assimilate that you are going to have issues, and that is not racist to say so. The House of cards that the EU is built on is falling apart with each year another tumble of cards. The only thing that keeping it together is the irrational fear that if the EU mistake falls apart, that Europe will have another big war.

You do realise that although it was a crap turnout in most countries, around 70% of the parties in the parliament are supportive of the EU. It's not going to 'fall apart'. It does need reform and if any good comes out pf people voting for racists like UKIP, then it might become more democratic.

[king mob]

It's not about a common Euro identity. It's an ECONOMIC union and always has been. It's about commerce, not patriotism.

Or have I gotten it totally wrong? I have before but I don't think I have this time.

Nope you've got it right. It's also to help enshrine human rights, which is what UKIP want shot of.

[Charles RB]

The Egyptian election is a damp squib:

On Wednesday, there was little sign that the number of voters had picked up, with one polling station in the upscale Zamalek district in Cairo failing to attract a single voter more than an hour after it opened, the AP news agency reported.

...

The head of the Electoral commission, Abdel Aziz Salman, claimed 37% of Egypt's 53 million eligible voters had taken part in the elections but analysts casted doubt on that figure.

Abdullah al-Arian, an assistant professor of History at Georgetown University, told Al Jazeera that the government figures seemed "inflated" based on reports out of the country.

He added that extension of voting for a third day showed that there was a "sense of panic" setting in among Egypt's leaders, who had tried to portray Sisi's election as a "universal concensus".

Sisi's only rival, Hamdeen Sabahi, slammed the ballot extension, saying it called into question the "integrity of the process".

Al-Arian said that the low turnout was a consequence of the calls for boycott by anti-coup activists, voter apathy, and disenchantment by those who previously supported the election process.

Some activists who supported the uprising against former President Hosni Mubarak fear Sisi could be an autocrat in the making. Others had backed Sabahi in the hope that he would preserve the values of the 2011 revolution.

The April 6 movenment, which played a pivotal role in the January 25 Revolution has also called for a boycott of the vote, dismissing the polls as a "military election".

The voter turnout has not gone unmentioned by Egypt's newspapers, even those generally supportive of Sisi.

Al Shorouk declared "The ballot boxes are looking for voters" on its front page and Al Masry al Youm wrote "The state is looking for a vote".

Well **** al-Sisi, what did you expect you'd get? 37% as an exaggerated vote is still fucking hideous.

[Paradox]

I never understood why people think it's the United States of Europe.

[king mob]

I never understood why people think it's the United States of Europe.

Because they're conspiracy theorists/fascists/racists/nutters/all of the above.

[Charles RB]

I never understood why people think it's the United States of Europe.

Same reason people think the UN is the future New World Order, I guess.

[Arvandor]

I never understood why people think it's the United States of Europe.

In my experience, only Americans say that.

[Arvandor]

It is. He's a wanker but he's right. He took Howard's Tories on in 2005 by fighting against his anti-immigration rhetoric and won. The fact that as you say, Tony Blair has to be the man who points this out to Labour is simply extraordinary.

He's still a wanker. Him being a wanker overrides everything else. No one's going to listen to him.

[Arvandor]

This is the thing, people are voting UKIP because they see UKIP as the party that would 'send them back where they came from'. It's been widely reported this is the case but it's barely scratched them because it's the Mirror and Guardian. When The Scum did it, it seemed to hit.

Are you listening to yourself? Blair, the Guardian, the Lib Dems, and every other left wing attack on UKIP has just made them stronger. Only when supposed right wing media attack them does it have any effect.

[Charles RB]

Syrian expats vote in the presidential election: massively pro-Assad in Lebanon and Jordan, but the opposition supporters have been boycotting it (since candidates needed to be approved by the parliament, which is controlled by... yeah, you guessed it). The sinister bit is rumours going around that if you don't vote, your family back home might get in trouble or you might not be allowed back into the country.

There are lots of honest, open Assad supporters, on grounds that only Assad can restore order (which is like saying only George Bush could stop the war in Iraq)

[Charles RB]

Libyan 'renegade' general Haftar has launched an air raid on the February 17 Martyrs Brigades in Benghazi; luckily no civilian casualties reported. Feb 17's friends in Ansar al-Sharia are trying to point the finger at the US as running Haftar (while the US response mainly seems to be "er, ****").

[Charles RB]

The Nigerian army claims it's found most of the missing girls and is holding off on using force to get them back - it's not clear if this is true. (Also, the death toll of Boko Haram victims since the abduction is 470) It has been leaked to the press that former president Olusegun Obasanjo is negotiating with Boko Haram to get the girls released, which may or may not be government backed negotiations.

[Arundel Armor Hunter]

It's not about a common Euro identity. It's an ECONOMIC union and always has been. It's about commerce, not patriotism.

Or have I gotten it totally wrong? I have before but I don't think I have this time.

It also means a bunch of common regulation so it's not just about commerce.

Actually they pretty much are already in the same gang. Twenty-two of the twenty-eight EU members are also in NATO. And most of the ones that aren't work very closely with NATO (Sweden and Finland especially).

And they would do their own thing the first time something bigger than sending a couple of thousand peacekeepers int a militarily backwards country would come up.
RB:

The only force capable of invading part of the EU would be Russia, which would effect the whole of the continent - so yes, most of them would be in the same gang if that ever happened. (Every so often someone will bring up China but they'd have go through Russia to get here)

Nato would not start a massive war just to prevent Russia from taking over one country or even more countries.

[Paradox]

Arundel Armor Hunter dodges:

It also means a bunch of common regulation so it's not just about commerce.

Perhaps, but it's still not anything resembling being about "a common Euro identity". In fact, exactly the opposite.