All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!

[Tami]

As a kippah-wearing Jewish American man, I understand the desire and duty to wear a head-covering. But, don't kid yourself...many women of Middle-Eastern descent are forced to wear them. Here's a picture of a protest in 1979 when Iranian women were forced to cover their heads:



There are lots of young women's grandmas in that picture whose grandmas were forced to wear head-coverings and now it is ingrained in their society that it is the 'right' and 'moral' thing to do.

Many areas in the US used to require that women wear dresses (no pants allowed) anything else was considered 'indecent'...what if we go back to that and in three generations any woman wearing pants would be jailed, disowned, or even killed. It's the same thing.

It's a woman's choice to decide if they wish to wear a veil or headscarf, and that choice goes both ways. If a woman is wearing one, respect her choice. It is not for you and anyone to question it in western countries like the US.

In other words, don't make assumptions about what a person wears [T-Shirts may be another matter].

[CenturianSpy]

It's racist to automatically assume that Grannie's Babushka is her choice, but Fatima's Hijab was forced on her. Both women were told wearing it was the right and moral thing to do within the context of their religion. You can't look at someone in religious dress and know that they're wearing it out of fear. Same goes for your Kippah!

Since many cultures encourage/force women to cover their heads it's not a race issue. It's naive to think that this type of brain-washing didn't happen or isn't currently happening. Countries censor images of women without head-coverings and often criminalize any discussion about women not wearing head-coverings. Your comments are ridiculous and naive.

[CenturianSpy]

It's a woman's choice to decide if they wish to wear a veil or headscarf, and that choice goes both ways. If a woman is wearing one, respect her choice. It is not for you and anyone to question it in western countries like the US.

In other words, don't make assumptions about what a person wears [T-Shirts may be another matter].

You're assuming it's a choice. You folks have zero knowledge on this.

[Iron Maiden]

I have family pictures of my grandmother, my babcia, wearing a babushka. No one back then ever dared imagine trying to rip her headscarf off of her head.

Exactly! My dad's parents immigrated from Poland in the early 1900's and there are pictures of her in a babushka! She had passed away before I was born.

[ImprobableQuestion]

Since many cultures encourage/force women to cover their heads it's not a race issue. It's naive to think that this type of brain-washing didn't happen or isn't currently happening. Countries censor images of women without head-coverings and often criminalize any discussion about women not wearing head-coverings. Your comments are ridiculous and naive.

You're also diverting the conversation away from the fact that white supremacists now feel emboldened enough to rip articles of clothing off of women because of their religion and ethnicity, and that they have enough pull to convince women to take them off.

[ImprobableQuestion]

Actually, no. You're lauding instances of women forsaking this article of clothing even they're done out of fear for their safety.

[CenturianSpy]

You're also diverting the conversation away from the fact that white supremacists now feel emboldened enough to rip articles of clothing off of women because of their religion and ethnicity.

Why should anyone have to comment on that? Only assholes think they can touch another person let alone remove an article of clothing. And if you think it's just 'white supremacists' that do this you're ignorant of what has always been going on. I've had my kippah knocked off four times in my life, once by a small child on a Chicago El train (a purely innocent act). The other three times...well I'll let you guess the color of people who did that.

[InformationGeek]

My good mood is shot. I'm heading home from work, relaxing and ready to enjoy my afternoon. On my way back, I end up behind someone at a stoplight. On their backwindow, they had one of those random stickers you usually see and this one in particular read:

" Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing their idiot."

F**king really?! REALLY?!

[CenturianSpy]

Actually, no. You're lauding instances of women forsaking this article of clothing even they're done out of fear for their safety.

My first response was:

I understand the desire and duty to wear a head-covering

Most of you folks only pretend to understand.

The fact is mandatory head-coverings (and even some body and face coverings) is a relatively new phenomena for most Muslim women. If it is a true 'choice', one not forced upon by family/society and not one of guilt but of true piety, then we can all easily support it. Or at least mind our own business. But to deny that these head-coverings are often used to oppress women is naive.

[Iron Maiden]

You're assuming it's a choice. You folks have zero knowledge on this.

But the incident being discussed was a woman living in this country and someone forcibly removing her head covering. That would be like me snatching one of those made in China Make America Great Again hats off someone just because I don't like Trump.

[CenturianSpy]

But the incident being discussed was a woman living in this country and someone forcibly removing her head covering. That would be like me snatching one of those made in China Make America Great Again hats off someone just because I don't like Trump.

Also included in this discussion was:

People need to understand that the hijabs are part of their faith and culture.

Those are your words. I was merely reacting to the flow of the conversation evolving around the horrific act.

Again, no one should have to state that they feel it is wrong to touch another person let alone remove an article of their clothing. That's a criminal act and the perpetrators should be arrested, tried, and convicted. They also should be liable for a civil suit.

[Iron Maiden]

Also included in this discussion was:


Those are your words. I was merely reacting to the flow of the conversation evolving around the horrific act.

Again, no one should have to state that they feel it is wrong to touch another person let alone remove an article of their clothing. That's a criminal act and the perpetrators should be arrested, tried, and convicted. They also should be liable for a civil suit.

For myself, I am focusing on the incident that happened here in the U.S. I just provided a little personal experience since I can remember the days when if you were female you were supposed to wear a covering on your head in church. I can even remember when girls could only wear dresses to school no matter how cold it was! We could were pants under your dress that you had to take off in the coat closet.

[Tami]

Doesn't matter if a woman wears a veil/head scarf willingly or not. You are only making things worse by forcibly removing it. You do not know the circumstances or the consequences of your actions.

There is no circumstances, ever, where forcibly removing something like that could be justified.

[worstblogever]

So a man on the thread is telling the ladies of different faiths what is, and isn't an acceptable head covering to avoid offending him, eh?

Let's just piss off all the sects:


Or, y'know, not pretend playing fashion police on headscarves isn't just an excuse to be an intolerant wanker towards the Muslim gals who honor this tradition (and not all do).

[CenturianSpy]

For myself, I am focusing on the incident that happened here in the U.S.

Clearly, based on your generalization comments, this wasn't your only focus. Again you said:

People need to understand that the hijabs are part of their faith and culture.

This clearly shows your assumption that this modern day practice is normal.

I just provided a little personal experience since I can remember the days when if you were female you were supposed to wear a covering on your head in church. I can even remember when girls could only wear dresses to school no matter how cold it was! We could were pants under your dress that you had to take off in the coat closet.

Try wearing required sidelocks (payots) or tefillin/shel rosh-yad for thirteen years (I only was required tefillin for three years) in school.

Doesn't matter if a woman wears a veil/head scarf willingly or not.

I assume you are referring just in the instances of forcefully removing these articles and not in the general sense.

There is no circumstances, ever, where forcibly removing something like that could be justified.

Our military have had to do this many times while looking for suspected terrorists. I find this circumstance to be justified.