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  1. #103171
    Incredible Member Mecegirl's Avatar
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    I don't really get the point of going on about Democratic super delegates at this point in time. It's not like if not for them Bernie would have won. Hillary still had more of the popular vote in the primary. She actually won more of the popular vote against Obama as well.

  2. #103172

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Open primaries are awful. All you're doing is allowing the other side to organize monkey wrenching in closely contested contests. You should have to be a Democrat to vote in the Democratic primary. I don't think suggesting that members of the party be able to select their own candidates is shocking.

    Caucuses are even worse.

    A party-member primary really is the best system. If you want to be able to influence the party, you should need to be a member of it. It's not like its hard to join.
    At what point should people be allowed to join? One issue in New York state is that there's a notoriously long gap between the time you're allowed to change parties and the presidential primary (in 2016, it was 193 days.)

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...y-other-state/

    This was well before most voters were paying attention to the primaries.

    I don't have a particular preference on this.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  3. #103173

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    Quote Originally Posted by aja_christopher View Post
    When the talking points involve separating kids from parents in violation of due process, repeatedly attacking "minority" American citizens, and openly selling America out to the Russians, they are points worth talking about.

    I don't give a damn about Warren's heritage -- Trump with the aid of the Republican party is helping to destroy our country as we know it.

    That's what I care about.

    Standing up to racism, injustice and corruption is not a "talking point" and if you think it is then maybe you need to rethink what it means to be an American citizen -- you spend more time attacking your fellow Americans on the "left" than you do addressing our common interest of preserving our democracy and keeping it free of foreign influence.

    You focus on Warren's "heritage" all you want to -- I've got more important issues to address.

    -----
    "Allies Wonder if the West Can Withstand the Trump Presidency"

    "For the last 17 months, Trump has torn at the West's cohesion and questioned its values in a startling manner since, typically, the US has always seen European institutions as multiples of its own power and enhancing its own security.

    He's portrayed US allies as freeloaders exploiting American generosity rather than partners in a US effort to rebuild shattered Europe after World War II and an alliance that beat communism in the Cold War in a triumph for liberal democratic capitalism.

    It's an assault that has opened wide divides in the transatlantic alliance and plays directly into what US intelligence agencies and foreign powers assess as Putin's goal -- to cement his own autocratic rule by weakening the institutions of the West.

    As it is, transatlantic relations are in their worst state in 70 years, as an increasingly unfettered US President acts on his populist nationalist intuition, inciting a trade war with the European Union and parroting the foreign policy talking points of the Russian strongman he admires.

    "The question everybody has here is what is the world going to look like after this couple of days here? Is an already undermined system getting a further blow?" said Thomas Kleine-Brockhoff, a former German presidential adviser, speaking from Brussels.

    Before leaving the White House, Trump showed why there is such concern in Europe, a month after he blew up the G7 summit in Canada. Then Trump told reporters his meeting with Putin would be easier than those with US allies, further stoking worries that his hostility to NATO could embolden Russia.

    The comment was yet another example of Trump siding with a leader seen by US allies as a threat to democracy, who US spy agencies say meddled in the 2016 US election to help Trump win and who presides over a security state likely responsible for the death of a British woman after a nerve gas attack on a Russian former spy on UK soil.

    Trump has often seemed more in tune with Russia's foreign-policy objectives than those of NATO -- calling for Russia's readmission into the G7 and refusing to rule out the recognition of Putin's annexation of Crimea."


    https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/11/polit...tin/index.html
    My family's from Estonia; I've been against Putin's Russia before it was cool. While I'm concerned about his influence in the world, I do think the significance of foreign influence in the 2016 election has been wildly exaggerated, with some people's opposition to Russia coming from their opposition to Trump rather than the other way around. It's generally agreed that Russia's efforts in the 2016 election were generally about causing chaos and disagreement in the US, and the arguments about the extent to which Russia helped Trump are part of that.

    I don't write often about "our common interest of preserving our democracy and keeping it free of foreign influence" because I rarely have anything to contribute on those points that hasn't been said already.

    My comment about talking points did come in response to a similar accusation thrown at me. It may be a bit glib, although things that are said in favor of standing up to racism, injustice and corruption can still be talking points; those on the left-wing on this board are going to repeat clever arguments about topics (and sometimes weaker arguments as well.)

    In the last few exchanges between the two of us, an interesting question's been hinted at: What's truly important? What are the most important arguments/ problems/ concerns right now?

    You've said that you're concerned about racism, injustice, corruption, and preserving democracy. And I've gotten the impression that you think Republicans holding back progress is the main problem. Is there anything else in the A-list of the big topics?

    I'm also very interested in anyone else's view on the most important topics right now.

    This did get me thinking about the things I'm most interested in. My main concerns are divisiveness, unintended consequences, the questions of how to deal with rapid social/ economic/ technological change, the necessity of being able to discuss policies honestly, and incentives (what behaviors are culture, society and the legal system rewarding?) The over-riding concern is allowing as many people as possible to reach their potential.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  4. #103174
    Ol' Doogie, Circa 2005 JDogindy's Avatar
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    Question

    http://money.cnn.com/2018/07/11/news...ter/index.html

    Can we discuss how terrible their pizza was anyway? I've always either ate Little Caesars or a local joint (Goodfellas!).

  5. #103175
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    Black farmers were deliberately sold ‘fake seeds’ in scheme to steal their land: report

    Black farmers in the Mid-South region surrounding Memphis used science to uncover a multi-million dollar scheme to put them out of business and steal their farmland, WMC News reported Tuesday.

    At the Mid-South Farm and Gin Show show in March of 2017, African-American farmers believe that Stine Seed Company purposefully sold them fake seeds.
    Thomas Burrell, president of the Black Farmers and Agriculturalists Association, explained how black farmers were receiving one-tenth of the yield as their white neighbors.

    “Mother nature doesn’t discriminate,” Burrell said. “It doesn’t rain on white farms but not black farms. Insects don’t [only] attack black farmers’ land…why is it then that white farmers are buying Stine seed and their yield is 60, 70, 80, and 100 bushels of soybeans and black farmers who are using the exact same equipment with the exact same land, all of a sudden, your seeds are coming up 5, 6, and 7 bushels?”

    The results were so stark, resulting in millions of dollars in losses, the farmers took their seeds for scientific testing by experts at Mississippi State University.

    The tests revealed the black farmers had not been given the quality “certified” Stine seeds for which they had paid.

    Burrell suggested a land grab was the ultimate motivation of the perpetrators.

    “All we have to do is look at here: 80 years ago you had a million black farmers, today you have less than 5,000. These individuals didn’t buy 16 million acres of land, just to let is lay idle. The sons and daughters, the heirs of black farmers want to farm, just like the sons and daughters of white farmers.”

    “So we have to acknowledge that racism is the motivation here,” Burrell concluded.
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  6. #103176
    Incredible Member Mecegirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogindy View Post
    http://money.cnn.com/2018/07/11/news...ter/index.html

    Can we discuss how terrible their pizza was anyway? I've always either ate Little Caesars or a local joint (Goodfellas!).
    I've always felt that the sauce was too sweet.

  7. #103177
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    MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow takes down Donald Trump’s war on agent Peter Strzok with shocking tale of his work at the FBI

    FBI agent Peter Strzok is scheduled to testify before Congress Thursday morning, so MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow spent Wednesday’s opener revealing the agent’s history and successes stopping Russian spies in the United States.

    It all began with the “Boston Conspirators,” a couple that were sent to the United States by Moscow to spy on America.
    The lead agent at the FBI who worked on the espionage cases was Peter Strzok. The same Peter Strzok who became the lead on the Hillary Clinton email scandal and the then-unexplained Russian involvement in President Donald Trump’s election. The same Peter Strzok that the president has started a personal war with. So, when the president rails against Congress and Strzok for not doing a public hearing before giving a classified one to Congress, his background as a lead agent of counter-intelligence at the FBI is probably the reason.

    “He actually won a medal for that one,” Maddow said of Strzok’s work on the case from 2010.

    The host then noted that Trump loves to blast Strzok for being anti-Trump in his “damning text messages” to his girlfriend Lisa Page, but he hasn’t tweeted out some of the text messages that talk about Russian interference in the 2016 election.

    “F*ck the cheating motherf*cking Russians,” he texted in late July. “Bastards. I hate them. I think they’re the worst. F*cking conniving, cheating savages. At statecraft, athletics, you name it. I’m glad I’m on Team USA.”

    She noted that the GOP has “seized” on Strzok thinking that he will become their way to make the Russia investigation go away.

    “A couple of problems with that strategy, which we are going to see in living color over the next 24 hours, including starting tomorrow morning,” Maddow said. “One problem they’ve got is what his actual job was at the FBI. He ran counter-intelligence in this country at the FBI. Destroying him says something about congressional Republicans’ view of the value of counter-intelligence at the time when there is an active concern about that for a lot of Americans for a lot of obvious reasons.”
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  8. #103178
    Dorky Person Charmed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogindy View Post
    http://money.cnn.com/2018/07/11/news...ter/index.html

    Can we discuss how terrible their pizza was anyway? I've always either ate Little Caesars or a local joint (Goodfellas!).
    My mom loves their pizza. I always preferred Pizza Hut, Dominoes, and this pizzeria I went to as a kid.

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  9. #103179
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogindy View Post
    http://money.cnn.com/2018/07/11/news...ter/index.html

    Can we discuss how terrible their pizza was anyway? I've always either ate Little Caesars or a local joint (Goodfellas!).
    Quote Originally Posted by Mecegirl View Post
    I've always felt that the sauce was too sweet.
    On this...

    The last time this guy got himself into hot water, a friend sent me a link to a video that I think was on Worldstar. The fellow in the clip pointed out that skipping this pizza was no big deal because their sauce tastes like medicine.

    I found myself thinking "You know, he actually has a point there."

  10. #103180
    Is always confused.....

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  11. #103181
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    That was priceless.

    Democrats, take note.

  12. #103182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    My family's from Estonia; I've been against Putin's Russia before it was cool. While I'm concerned about his influence in the world, I do think the significance of foreign influence in the 2016 election has been wildly exaggerated, with some people's opposition to Russia coming from their opposition to Trump rather than the other way around. It's generally agreed that Russia's efforts in the 2016 election were generally about causing chaos and disagreement in the US, and the arguments about the extent to which Russia helped Trump are part of that.
    Being against Russia has been cool in America since before you were born (the "Cold War") so I doubt you've been against it that long since you probably weren't around back in the 1940s.

    That said, if you honestly believe that the foreign influence I'm talking about is "wildly exaggerated" when nearly Trump's entire transition team was compromised, there have already been 17 indictments including his accomplices Manafort and Flynn, and Trump himself is currently out and about in the world fulfilling Putin's to-do list down to the last detail then we've once again hit that point where there's probably not much point in having a "dialogue" about it.

    I appreciate you wanting to learn more but given all the evidence surrounding Trump and his Russian connections -- up to and including calling for the Wikileaks hack prior to the election -- this is definitely one of those areas where we won't find common ground. In my mind, there is no such thing as "light treason": if Trump was illegally working with a hostile foreign power to subvert our democracy to get elected and then carry out said foreign power's agenda then he needs to be impeached and removed from power as soon as possible -- period.

    Just like racism and many other issues, we just can't discuss these things when your perspective seems more informed by personal bias than the facts at hand.

    I understand if you see it differently but I can't pretend not to notice the obvious nor waste time "debating" whether I should believe my own eyes. I will add, though, that if Pence and/or Ryan are "clean" and they step in then I don't have a problem with that -- this isn't about hating Republicans, this is about rooting out corruption, Republican or otherwise.

    Not much to debate on the topic anyway -- none of us have all of the facts and ultimately Mueller's investigation will reveal more of the truth in time.

    You also mentioned other topics of interest but I believe we've already discussed most of them -- including education, immigration, and others.

    -----
    "Flynn says Trump transition team directed him to contact Russia"

    "As part of a plea deal, former national security adviser Michael Flynn has admitted that a senior member of the Trump transition team directed him to make contact with Russian officials in December 2016.

    Flynn pleaded guilty Friday to making false statements to the FBI, becoming the first official who worked in the Trump White House to make a guilty plea so far in a wide-ranging investigation led by special counsel Robert Mueller into possible coordination between Russia and the Trump campaign to influence the outcome of the 2016 election.

    The government did not reveal the identity of the senior transition official."


    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...m-directed-him
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 07-11-2018 at 10:08 PM.

  13. #103183
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    At what point should people be allowed to join? One issue in New York state is that there's a notoriously long gap between the time you're allowed to change parties and the presidential primary (in 2016, it was 193 days.)

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...y-other-state/

    This was well before most voters were paying attention to the primaries.

    I don't have a particular preference on this.
    You obviously want people to be able to respond to actual candidates but you can't be so generous as to allow ratf****ing in closely contested primaries.

    I don't have the best solution but I'm sure that there are better options than all or nothing open primaries.

  14. #103184
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    "Papa John" Schnatter resigned over a public racial slur -- not surprised nor do I really care... just thought people might be interested.

    https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/11/new...ter/index.html

    Meanwhile, the NFL Player's Union is stepping up to challenge the new "anthem policy".

    https://lawandcrime.com/sports/nfl-a...les-grievance/

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    My main concerns are divisiveness, unintended consequences, the questions of how to deal with rapid social/ economic/ technological change, the necessity of being able to discuss policies honestly, and incentives (what behaviors are culture, society and the legal system rewarding?) The over-riding concern is allowing as many people as possible to reach their potential.
    Wanted to mention a book I read a long time ago -- back when I was still in grade school I think. It's an older book (it was old even when I read it as a kid) and much of it might be outdated but it's a decent examination of what's known to the more esoteric among us as the coming of the "Age of Aquarius" which is an air sign that represents communication, humanitarianism, waves, and electricity among other things.

    Found a link to a "documentary" with Orson Welles -- keep in mind that I've never watched this but I'm assuming it at least covers the basics.



    "Future Shock is a 1970 book by the futurists Alvin and Heidi Toffler, in which the authors define the term "future shock" as a certain psychological state of individuals and entire societies. Their shortest definition for the term is a personal perception of "too much change in too short a period of time". The book, which became an international bestseller, grew out of an article "The Future as a Way of Life" in Horizon magazine, Summer 1965 issue.

    The Tofflers argued that society is undergoing an enormous structural change, a revolution from an industrial society to a "super-industrial society". This change overwhelms people. He believed the accelerated rate of technological and social change left people disconnected and suffering from "shattering stress and disorientation"—future shocked. The Tofflers stated that the majority of social problems are symptoms of future shock. In their discussion of the components of such shock, they popularized the term "information overload...."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Shock

    https://www.npr.org/2016/06/30/48421...40-years-later
    https://www.fastcompany.com/1695307/...ight-and-wrong
    Last edited by aja_christopher; 07-11-2018 at 11:05 PM.

  15. #103185
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    On a side note, I'm much more interested in what happens "after" -- once AI and robotics connect directly, the world is going to be an extremely different place from what we're used to and I don't think sci-fi is far off in assuming that eventually there will be some kind of conflict between man and technology, if only given the nature of man alone.

    Last edited by aja_christopher; 07-11-2018 at 11:07 PM.

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