All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!

[PunishedFire]

Key word being could plunge -- not will plunge.

Could? Possibly. Then there's scumbags like Bill Maher actively HOPING it will happen. What a jerk.

And it's only Trump's second year -- again, let's see what happens.

Good point. We do still have 6 years left.

[stephens2177]

Lmao,I love this

[Malvolio]

It's pretty racist to believe that black folks should be able to be denied service by white folks because 'they'll go out of business'. That isn't how Jim Crow ended.

It's the argument that Rand Paul made. But it ignores that fact that in a lot of areas, ALL of the lunch counters discriminated against Black people. Where exactly were they supposed to go? Who exactly would be the non-racist competition that would put the racists out of business? The "Free Market" doesn't really work when the bad business practices are the only game in town.

[Kevinroc]

Lmao,I love this

This is a pretty bad demonstration of "pwning the libs." You should really have higher standards.

[PunishedFire]

It's the argument that Rand Paul made. But it ignores that fact that in a lot of areas, ALL of the lunch counters discriminated against Black people. Where exactly were they supposed to go? Who exactly would be the non-racist competition that would put the racists out of business? The "Free Market" doesn't really work when the bad business practices are the only game in town.

"were" being the operative phrase

That said, I'm actually of the mind that funding should then go towards business loans for the discriminated class in the area to generate competition.

Creating inclusive, black-owned businesses creates the business the black community needs AND generates wealth within the black community in a positive direction rather than funneling their money towards racists.

Obviously this is basically a non-issue at this point since racist business practices would crush a business quickly (and awesomely)

[stephens2177]

This is a pretty bad demonstration of "pwning the libs." You should really have higher standards.

You called him a racist,maybe you should start 1st FRIEND

[Kevinroc]

"were" being the operative phrase

That said, I'm actually of the mind that funding should then go towards business loans for the discriminated class in the area to generate competition.

Creating inclusive, black-owned businesses creates the business the black community needs AND generates wealth within the black community in a positive direction rather than funneling their money towards racists.

Obviously this is basically a non-issue at this point since racist business practices would crush a business quickly (and awesomely)

"Obviously this is basically a non-issue at this point since racist business practices would crush a business quickly (and awesomely)"

This is a strange viewpoint to have in a country where Fox News exists.

You called him a racist,maybe you should start 1st FRIEND

I'm not your friend, buddy.

[stephens2177]

"were" being the operative phrase

That said, I'm actually of the mind that funding should then go towards business loans for the discriminated class in the area to generate competition.

Creating inclusive, black-owned businesses creates the business the black community needs AND generates wealth within the black community in a positive direction rather than funneling their money towards racists.

Obviously this is basically a non-issue at this point since racist business practices would crush a business quickly (and awesomely)

In the internet and instantaneous news cycle Era,complete transperancy is the best disinfectant

[stephens2177]

"Obviously this is basically a non-issue at this point since racist business practices would crush a business quickly (and awesomely)"

This is a strange viewpoint to have in a country where Fox News exists.



I'm not your friend, buddy.

So you just called punishedfire,trump,fox news all racists,and you want me to have higher standards? Look in the mirror much.

And ppl can totally disagree on things and still be friends, or,at least civil

[Tendrin]

This phrase means nothing and is a weak ad hominem.

It's an ad hominem that Trump's a white nationalist? Because he pretty clearly is. "Very fine people on both sides," he says of literal Nazis in Charlottesville. "Sons of a bitches," he says of black people kneeling in NFL games to protest brutality. I mean, the sheer number of times Trump has engaged in actual racism, and you don't see it? Republican congressmen retweeting neo-nazis and you still don't see it?

It's baseless and weak. Not worth replying to.

You really think 'Trump and Putin are white nationalists' are baseless? Really? Interesting.

I'll take the "Fair" as you conceding that you're wrong. No moving the goalposts. Your statement was wrong.

I was wrong that specifically /nobody/ said that, yes. I was in error in this and left myself open to an easy shot that doesn't really change much of anything. I copped that it was a fair point, so.

I literally said my parents worked very hard and that I am in awe of that effort and thankful for it. I suspect you are projecting things on to me and not actually reading what I'm writing because you're making vast assumptions. I find it a trait shared by many on the left.

Guy, I'm saying that you're not aware of all the ways YOU benefitted in it. Nobody can see everything, and it sounds to me like you're simply unaware of how easily it could've gone bad, or how other people's circumstances /don't/ avail them of the same benefits and feel comfortable making those judgments.

My "advantages" were created by the decisions and efforts my parents made. I am continuing to make the best decisions I can based on how they raised me.

I've previously acknowledged all of this...and did so up front.

Sure, but that's not /precisely/ what I'm arguing.

Bad choices are the number one cause of bad outcomes. Full stop.
We are beings with agency. Every decision we make ripples out. Statistical information supports all of this. Are there other factors in play? Oh absolutely. Do those factors erase agency? No, or you wouldn't see people having come from the SAME PLACE but with different outcomes that can be traced back again and again with statistical evidence to decisions that were made.

Or, you know, a single illness for someone raised in more marginal circumstances.

A perfect example is my extended family. All the ones doing bad? It can be traced to the same kind of bad patterns of bad decision making.

You're sure about that? Like I said, 'comfortable making those judgments'.

rac·ism
[ˈrāˌsizəm]
NOUN

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

I'm aware of the definition. Here's another:

a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

If you have a policy that allows for racial discrimination, or allows for it because your ideology allows for others to be free to engage in discriminatory practices, you are engaging in racism. One does not have to personally discriminate. if you empower systemic racism, you are a racist. Fostering racism by allowing its free expression, /often but not alwaysinvisible/, allows it. Your system would eventually have us back at segregated counters, redlining, and sundown towns in no time. We know this because we were there less than a century ago. Pretending it's all fine to enable systemic racism through 'free choice' as long as you're not /personally/ discriminatory is... problematic at best.

Your assertion is baseless and ignorant.

Back atcha.

Private business owners should be able to do as they please because I believe that is the right of a business owner. They are free to be bigoted or prejudicial. Nowadays, that would only hurt their business not only because it is a dumb business practice that reduces your consumer flow but because it shows that the person running the business is, frankly, stupid.

This was the excuse trotted out against black folks sitting at lunch counters, with the full support of other customers who didn't want to share a lunch counter with them. Tell me again how they'd have gone out of business? Your entire argument here is predicated on 'now adays', when it may not always be like that if you tolerate the intolerant. Popper was right.

Attachment 67531

As I pointed out, it is a morally complicated situation because, in my opinion, people have a right to associate with and do business how they wish. However, morally I also disagree with racism. Does that mean I want the government to force people to do business against their racist beliefs? Again...difficult situation. I err on the side of no nowadays and a big part of that is because it would put those bad businesses out of business very quickly AND create the opportunity for competition to just eat them alive in the market.

It's really not a morally complicated situation. Discrimination is wrong, and it ought not be legal. It isn't, thankfully, but the magical free market fairy doesn't solve discrimination, especially discrimination towards minorities who have less clout than those who support racism in many cases. Our supposed anti-racist majority isn't as strong as you seem to think.

I'd rather know someone is a bigot and not give them money because of it than have them forced to serve me and be ignorant of who I'm doing business with. Forced altruism isn't altruism, after all. Forced non-racism, isn't no
racism. It's compelled association & business.

That's great for you but you're not really considering the difficulty your system imposes on those who are the actual subject of this discrimination. This does not surprise me at all.

Naturally, I don't really expect any philosophical discussion...it's easier just to mindlessly point like a pre-programmed drone and say "RACIST!" against the person repeatedly pointing out the folly of racism. It doesn't create any dialogue or greater understanding but it usually bolsters the accusers sense of moral fortitude. It does so without any basis in reality and is ultimately hollow, gaining them nothing, but c'est le vie

You're pointing out the folly of racism while enabling it and seemingly not being super concerned for the impact on people who have to deal with it as its victims.

[aja_christopher]

(Edit: Deleting the sarcasm since the it adds little to the discussion.)

[numberthirty]

Just one more time...

If it's "News"/"Politics", maybe. Otherwise, you should be asking yourself if it's thread relevant enough to warrant a reply.

[Kevinroc]

So you just called punishedfire,trump,fox news all racists,and you want me to have higher standards? Look in the mirror much.

And ppl can totally disagree on things and still be friends, or,at least civil

I actually do have Conservative friends. They wouldn't insult my intelligence trying to claim Fox News, Trump, etc. aren't racist. I can look myself in the mirror just fine knowing I didn't empower these racist buffoons.

[stephens2177]

Question- should the Red Hen have been made to serve Sanders?

Oh and roseanne got thrown out for her mouth,and her show was at the top,but she still got dropped.

[stephens2177]

I actually do have Conservative friends. They wouldn't insult my intelligence trying to claim Fox News, Trump, etc. aren't racist. I can look myself in the mirror just fine knowing I didn't empower these racist buffoons.

Do you hear yourself? You don't make sense,you just blurt out racist and think that's enough don't you.

The way you throw it around says more about you than those you are accusing of it.