All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!

[Double 0]

When yall are done putting words in people's mouths on your high horse, then maybe we can have a discussion about this. But for what it's worth, no, there are ways to address legitimate issues to a politician/candidate without senselessly throwing a tantrum and shutting down his platform altogether.

They offered an alternative. Bernie cancelled it.

[bert]

I don't see why that's a strawman. What do you want BLM people to do? Most likely it's shut up and support "the only guy willing to help them".

how about contacting the event organizer and asking for time to speak?

or how about them agreeing to speak after the organizer said he was going to let them -- instead of just shouting about how they are being "disrespected" and to "let her speak" (even though they were NOT invited to speak at the rally, and were interrupting the person who WAS invited to speak).

just shameful behavior.

(and no, I'm not a Sanders supporter. . if you read back, you'll see that. This behavior is not anything I want to be associated with. . .and this is coming from someone who laid down in the streets of Austin in the 90's blocking traffic in my Silence = Death T-shirt).

I'm all for civil disobedience to force social changes. This is just rude behavior against people (the event organizers) who are TRYING to work with them.

[7thangel]

lol, it's almost like o'malley didn't exist, lol

i said it before, soft.

[heretic]

And yet, magically, Mr. Tough on Crime O'Malley was able to do just that. He then fumbled hilariously because he's Mr. tough on crime, but he did just that. He pause, he let a discussion happen, and provided an avenue for more.

So from the sound of it O'Malley did manage to get an answer or two in.

Bernie has run away. And then talked about the issue to mostly white people.

So seizing the stage is going to have him talk to us? Yes, I said us.

Because it's well known that they are A) Hostile, and B) Don't give a damn about black lives?

So this silliness is a compliment? I would think demanding answers from the right (unlike from Sanders, who havs been giving them for decades) would take priority.

Personally, I hope this whole election cycle gets it, from Hillary to the low end Repubs.


But let this be clear, this could have ended at Netroots. Bernie's failure and the hostility of his supporters is why it's become a feud.

One that will not work to our benefit. Let the man talk. Put forth relevant questions during the Q&A, and _end_ it.

Black activist know his history. They also know that he's been recently very dismissive and his followers hostile, paternalistic towards them.

And I know that after what happened in Seattle, Bernie has made steps to fix this problem. Great steps like adding Symone Sanders to his campaign, and going more in depth about racial injustice on his website. And that's good on him.


His supporters need to stop being a bunch of assclowns towards black activists though. That has been what has added fuel to the fire since Netroot.

The ones taking it out on Back people in general? Yes. The ones saying 'slow down and let them man speak' are another story.

[bert]

Ok. You know how bad it would look if I stopped supporting LGBT rights just because of the lack of intersectionality within LGBT groups, right?

it would depend if that was your only reason. I'd ask for more detail. but everyone has their own line. . and for *me*. . BLM representatives here, crossed it.

I explained my reason why I won't support this movement any longer (tho an apology for they way they handled it might get me back on board. . . not expecting one tho).

^ and I'm talking Press release from someone representing BLM. . not an apology from some random person here. . (just to be clear)

[Shawn Hopkins]

I don't see why that's a strawman. What do you want BLM people to do? Most likely it's shut up and support "the only guy willing to help them".

Did they at first try to meet with him and say they were concerned that his campaign was focusing too much on income inequality and ask to be part of his platform? Because I think that would have went over better than attacking him in public. No, he didn't handle it well, but he's a human being with feelings and obviously those were hurt by what he saw as a rejection.

The issue here isn't policy, it's tactics. BLM's tactics are counter-productive, they're turning the cannons around and firing into the ship.

[Double 0]

how about contacting the event organizer and asking for time to speak?

or how about them agreeing to speak after the organizer said he was going to let them -- instead of just shouting about how they are being "disrespected" and to "let her speak" (even though they were NOT invited to speak at the rally, and were interrupting the person who WAS invited to speak).

And all that is enough for you to say, "**** it, black lives matter was a mistake?" Two interruptions?

just shameful behavior.

(and no, I'm not a Sanders supporter. . if you read back, you'll see that. This behavior is not anything I want to be associated with. . .and this is coming from someone who laid down in the streets of Austin in the 90's blocking traffic in my Silence = Death T-shirt).

I'm all for civil disobedience to force social changes. This is just rude behavior against people (the event organizers) who are TRYING to work with them.

Their trying has had flaws, most notably outright dismissing black activists up until now, despite talking about issues that should be centered on them.

Bernie could have ended this with a meeting. Or even multiple meetings. A dialogue. He chose not to and has wilted under pressure. That will get him nowhere in the general election.

[7thangel]

Ok. You know how bad it would look if I stopped supporting LGBT rights just because of the lack of intersectionality within LGBT groups, right?

this. i forget his name, the retired vet, dan something. i found him annoying as all hell, but i didn't say to hell with lgbt rights, ending dadt and doma, or the various groups fighting for it. same with immigration groups and funny enough, same with BLM. i don't go around calling myself an ally, i'm not the one that can make that determination nor do i expect those to simply take it on credit that i am because i'm some 'lefty' or 'progressive', but my support for movements don't disappear because i don't like tactics or members.

plus, movements > pols. and in this case black lives > white feelings. black lives > tone. black lives > fragility.

[heretic]

this is some bullshit right here. you're not going to scare folks on this bullshit tactic.

What bullshit? The Invisible Man expressed the conviction that Sanders is merely an old white man seeking power, I presented men of color seeking the same seats and asked if he preferred them.

Now if the issue is not age and color but if the presidency is held by someone that will benefit the country in general rather than a wealthy white subset...

not the base that has been loyal while some of these 'progressives' have stayed home to 'teach a lesson' (and then whinge after)

Like those who shout the senator down, dismiss his record, and demand that their votes be earned?

and the voters bernie has stated he's after, that have fled to the repubs because they think the dem party is too minority driven. nope.

I get what he is trying to do. "You going to stick with the people that have been jerking you around economically or are you going to give up on the Racial Solidarity silliness to stand with the minorities for your economic interests."

I cannot dismiss such efforts.

[Shawn Hopkins]

lol, it's almost like o'malley didn't exist, lol

i said it before, soft.

You make it sound like he completely ignored the protest at Netroots, but he did try to address it, too, and said more to the point things than O'Malley, who tried to deflect a bit.

[heretic]

yep. . backfired on them, at least as far as I'm concerned.

I will not march with them, or support the Black Lives Matter movement any further.

I will.

I will also call them fools for opposing the candidate who will help us on this more any any currently in the race.

[bert]

And all that is enough for you to say, "**** it, black lives matter was a mistake?" Two interruptions?

again, NOT just an "interruption". .they caused his event to be shut down. No one got to hear the man speak. . which was the purpose of the event.

If I had made the effort to attend? I'd be FURIOUS. (hell, I'm angry and I didn't have to make arrangements to be there for an event that got cancelled as it was starting).

Their trying has had flaws, most notably outright dismissing black activists up until now, despite talking about issues that should be centered on them.

Bernie could have ended this with a meeting. Or even multiple meetings. A dialogue. He chose not to and has wilted under pressure. That will get him nowhere in the general election.

the Activists should have come to him. Not the other way around.

they should have reached out to the campaign and asked to speak, or have a dialogue. Not storm the stage. And especially once the event organizer said they would be allowed to speak? say "thank you" and make use of the time offered.

[7thangel]

This Will Keep Happening Until Bernie Sanders Learns

[lancerman]

Ok. You know how bad it would look if I stopped supporting LGBT rights just because of the lack of intersectionality within LGBT groups, right?

Well it's more like you not supporting a specific LGBT rights group because they are targeting the most relevant and legitimate candidate that they stand to gain the most from him and has generally championed their rights by effectively trying to shut down his message. Meanwhile literally every other candidate out there is either not going to lift a finger to help that cause or actively fight against it.

Even putting aside the manner in which it was done, I don't see how targeting Sanders really helps in any way.

[bert]

this. i forget his name, the retired vet, dan something. i found him annoying as all hell, but i didn't say to hell with lgbt rights, ending dadt and doma, or the various groups fighting for it. same with immigration groups and funny enough, same with BLM. i don't go around calling myself an ally, i'm not the one that can make that determination nor do i expect those to simply take it on credit that i am because i'm some 'lefty' or 'progressive', but my support for movements don't disappear because i don't like tactics or members.

plus, movements > pols. and in this case black lives > white feelings. black lives > tone. black lives > fragility.

Like I said, we all have our own lines.

more power to you, but they've lost my support.