All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!

[Distorted Humor]

Obama Administration outed a CIA station Chief. Don't worry, nothing will happen, even if people like Scooter Libby went to Prison for less.

[Distorted Humor]

More of the MEP results across Europe, and how outright Nazis got in.

Screw it. Every country that went neo-Nazi, let them suffer. Let their economies get worse and let chaos rain and all the social poison in the mud come out as a direct result. Let the people who voted Front National and People's Party and so forth bleed. We know what Nazis and fascists do and the continent waded in blood up to its armpits last time, if people who voted them in suffer worse than they have during the recession then they damn well have it coming.

As long as the media pretends that they are Nazi's they will only get stronger, as voters are so upset with the current parties. Let them try to govern and fail and they will be gone soon enough.

[Charles RB]

As long as the media pretends that they are Nazi's, they will only get stronger

Some of those parties are Nazis. They have swatiskas, they like the term "National Socialism", they want a register of Jews. If pointing out they're Nazis will mean they "only get stronger" in countries that suffered under Nazi rule, then something is horribly wrong with those countries.

[Distorted Humor]

Some of those parties are Nazis. They have swatiskas, they like the term "National Socialism", they want a register of Jews. If pointing out they're Nazis will mean they "only get stronger" in countries that suffered under Nazi rule, then something is horribly wrong with those countries.

You are branding a lot of the parties with a very broad brush. The National Front is no Golden Dawn. Just my .02 cents.

[Charles RB]

You are branding a lot of the parties with a very broad brush.

I'm not saying all are outright Nazis. I'm saying some are definitely outright Nazis.

Though with Front National, they're dodgy enough that I don't care if their voters get it in the neck either.

[Distorted Humor]

I'm not saying all are outright Nazis. I'm saying some are definitely outright Nazis.

Though with Front National, they're dodgy enough that I don't care if their voters get it in the neck either.

Well the EU is a failed experiment, what do you expect going to happen when the major parties felt pressured to to even speak Anti-EU, the voters speak and the sooner the EU is gone, the faster the EU will be a better place.

[Charles RB]

Pro-Russian militias seized Donetsk airport; the Ukranian military has been counter-attacking, Kiev claiming it's used paratroopers. The gunmen did this after it became clear there was going to be a new president with a clear majority and no run-off vote - Poroshenko took 54% of the vote (the two right-wing candidates polled less than 2% combined) and claims he wants talks with Russia to end the crisis. He's taking a hard line on the airport: "It should and will last hours."

[Charles RB]

Well the EU is a failed experiment

Thing is, people have been claiming that since near the start of the European Coal and Steel Community and it's still there. People said the EU was clearly going to fall to bits very, very soon back in 2010 and it didn't. And countries keep trying to get in or buddy up to it.

EDIT: And despite losing seats, the pro-EU blocs still won

Despite the unprecedented Eurosceptic gains across the Union, Jose Manuel Barroso, outgoing president of the European Commission, insisted that the pro-EU blocs still had "a very solid and workable majority".

The centre-right European People's Party appears set to win 213 out of the 751 seats, with 28.5% across the bloc, according to estimated results issued by the European Parliament. That would mean it remains the biggest group - but with more than 60 seats fewer than before.

The Socialist alliance has a projected 190 seats, with 25% of the vote, the Liberals 9% and the Greens 7%.

The Eurosceptic Europe of Freedom and Democracy group appeared to have around 38 seats - including the 24 for UKIP. But the number of non-attached right-wing MEPs is set to rise, boosting the Eurosceptic camp.

Hollande's saying the EU needs to reform and scale back, which seems more what people actually want outside of the people who freak out at the idea of Romanians next door.

[Lucette]

The Tea Party certainly had some legitimate points, but almost initially they were co-opted by corporate interests. Nevertheless though many TP candidates do and continuing be a thorn in the Republican estableshment. If the best people the GOP have for 2016 is Jeb Bush and Chris Christie...compared to Ted Cruz and Rand Paul....

Out of the Calgary born, I think that I prefer Naheed Nenshi, the first straight Muslim mayor to be Grand Marshall of the Calgary Pride Parade over Ted Cruz. Rand Paul does have the odd left position, such as speaking out against drones, otherwise he is a Preston Manning clone.

The Tea Party is astroturf - just like the Reform party was. At the beginning, it was promoted that the ordinary people can have a say - but part of the reason for that is because if they are encourage to speak up, one can find out their issues - which is why I say that it was like a giant focus group - though, like I say - either theory fits the facts. Also, the Reform Party / Tea Party seemed to have an awful lot of money behind them from the beginning - as far as being able to promote themselves - and that is fairly unusual for a new party.

Still I remember during the last federal election there were some robocalls gave misleading directions in one municipality in Manitoba or something.

The place most know for them was Guelph in Ontario though they happened across the country. There was an elderly lady that got a call saying her polling station had been moved many blocks away - when she knew that it was in her building. There was another person who got the call who lived right across from the polling station so knew that it had not been moved. There was Joe Comartin's wife who got a call saying that the polling station was moved - who thought to phone the code which gives the last number called and she called it and it turned out to be Tory HQ (straightgoods on youtube). The thing that these examples have in common is that the people were not fooled. I remember on voting day that the media was reporting that there had been report of misleading calls and they were fake - which would have reduced the likelihood of people falling for them.

Counsel of Canadians helped raised money to fight the case - and it was found that they could not prove that enough people had been misled to overturn results. It was also determined that the Tory database was used but not that the party was involved in doing it - though the one Tory staffer charged has his trial this summer. The ruling said that the Tories were unco-operative all the way - which made it hard to uncover the truth - and they still figure they don't know the full story - especially who used the alias Pierre Poutine. Skippy's Unfair Elections Act was supposed to address that issue to make party officials more forthcoming, but seems to be more of a voter suppression bill - which is not as bad as it was, but was designed originally to create new loopholes for campaign funding. You probably see Pat Martin as the face of this because he gave a good speech about it - saying how 'American' it was.

There was the in and out campaign financing scandal and another one that I forget.

Recently, Voter ID laws are an attempt to disenfranchise (take away their vote) African-Americans, the War-on-Woman, and FOX News created all the "phony" scandals.

I think those things are real but very hyped up. If one can use one's gun licence to vote but not one's student card - it does make it seem as if they are trying to make it easier for people who would vote for them to vote and harder for people who would vote against them to vote. In both Canada and the USA, it is harder to vote if you don't have a driver licence since it is a picture ID with your address on it (proving residency). Because of historical factors, blacks tend to be poorer than whites. Then, unlike Canada, if you have ever been accused of a crime in the USA you can't vote - and, if it is for something minor, often people who cannot afford fancy lawyers are better off pleading guilty for time served than trying to fight it. Ergo, it is harder for black people to vote. The Dems are bringing up Jim Crow laws and the emotion around them - exploiting the voter suppression to get blacks to vote for as a protest against voter suppression (instead of coming up with more policies which appeal to blacks).

The War on Women mainly centres on the abortion issue. No mention of more affordable child care spaces which would make it easier for women to work or go to school. The Dems promote the idea of equal pay for equal work (rather than equal pay for work of equal value) though, in practice, it seems to benefit more well off women moreso than poorer ones.

You forgot the Ralph Nader conspiracy theory - Dems are promoting the idea that Ralph Nader is in bed with the GOP and intentionally ran to help Bush beat Gore. This seems like an elaboration of the usual strategy of strategic voting - which was pushed early and hard when Obama ran for re-election. Strategic voting is when they promote the idea that you have to vote for them (rather than a third party) or the big scary GOP will get in. Note that they are using fear, rather than policy, to get progressives to vote Dem so that the Dems can focus on policies that will appeal to soft GOPers.

A Canadian politician said that Obama is a student of Reganomics and that Romney (yes I know the dictionary definition) makes Ronald Reagan look like a socialist.

Real left wing scandals are Truthers, Anti-GMO, Anti-vax and that the Invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were for OIL, (Oil that US companies saw no profit from.

There was something called the Oil Law that the Americans were trying to convince the Iraqis to pass. When On the Map was on the air, they used to have a copy of the law on the CBC webpage, but that isn't there any more (video discussing it). Avi Lewis is Naomi Klein's husband.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXtqkCzv0Cw

Reading the UKIP stuff - think that I am getting it mixed up with Scottish separatists (like our Quebec ones) - all I've heard is that they tend not to like immigration but not much else about them.

Anti-vax is more Libertarian than left. Both the left and Libertarians hate Monsanto though there are some differences in why.

[Charles RB]

Reading the UKIP stuff - think that I am getting it mixed up with Scottish separatists (like our Quebec ones) - all I've heard is that they tend not to like immigration but not much else about them.

The Scottish separatists/nationalists are the Scottish National Party. The reason you only hear about UKIP re their immigration policy is because most of what they talk about, and anyone supporting them cares about, is that policy and their general anti-EU stance (United Kingdom Independence Party as in independent from Europe). You look at their policies and it's weird stuff like massive military investment for the sake of it and, until last year, repealing the devolved parliaments. Imagine a Canadian party who wanted to remove Quebec's state government.

[Mikekerr3]

Obama Administration outed a CIA station Chief. Don't worry, nothing will happen, even if people like Scooter Libby went to Prison for less.

Actually since Obam is the final legal arbiter n what is classified and what is not ( all classification authority comes though the POTUS) what consqewnce would you imagine would happen. When the Prez stated it publicly it became declassified right then and there/

I was a dumb assed thing to do, but in now way illegal

[Paradox]

Lucette can see the timing:

Also, the Reform Party / Tea Party seemed to have an awful lot of money behind them from the beginning - as far as being able to promote themselves - and that is fairly unusual for a new party.

The time between the speech that promoted the idea of a Tea Party and it being co-opted and overrun by the Koch brothers was merely a matter of days at best (some say a matter of hours). That's IF it wasn't a complete set-up by them in the first place (it's plausible that it was not).

[Arundel Armor Hunter]

Thing is, people have been claiming that since near the start of the European Coal and Steel Community and it's still there. People said the EU was clearly going to fall to bits very, very soon back in 2010 and it didn't. And countries keep trying to get in or buddy up to it.
[/URL]



Hollande's saying the EU needs to reform and scale back, which seems more what people actually want outside of the people who freak out at the idea of Romanians next door.

It always was an elite driven project. The average guy might want free trade and freedom of movement/right to work but not much more than that. Almost nobody would die for the EU like they would for a nation state.

[Paradox]

Is that even an argument? The EU is a failure because it doesn't get treated with nationalistic jingoism? I kind of thought that was the whole point.

[Cotton]

Heh, jingoism, haven't heard that word since high school history class, thanks for reminding me that was even a word 'Dox.