All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!

[IheartBatman]

Your assumption is that Bernie would only gain votes that Hilllary did not with no idea of what kind of campaign would've been run against him. It's a leap.

Considering the baggage Hillary had before even running in the primaries, it really isn't much of a leap. Those DNC emails show that they wanted to push Trump as a viable candidate because he was easy to beat; Trump thought the same of Hillary. He did not want Sanders, because Sanders had more momentum and would have easily gone toe to toe with him, without the skeletons that Clinton had rattling around in her closet.

[Iron Maiden]

Your assumption is that Bernie would only gain votes that Hilllary did not with no idea of what kind of campaign would've been run against him. It's a leap.

Believe me, the GOP would have jumped on Bernie's socialist tendencies, a big dog whistle to conservatives even though they love their Social Security checks and Medicare. I do think he would have had stronger message than Hillary though.

[Tendrin]

Considering the baggage Hillary had before even running in the primaries, it really isn't much of a leap. Those DNC emails show that they wanted to push Trump as a viable candidate because he was easy to beat; Trump thought the same of Hillary. He did not want Sanders, because Sanders had more momentum and would have easily gone toe to toe with him, without the skeletons that Clinton had rattling around in her closet.

AS we know, most concerns about Hillary amount to horseshit, between her emails, 'superpredators', and 'Goldman Sachs'.

Trump's concerns about Bernie are understandable, given that Trump's major concerns were about 'crowd sizes' and 'rallies'. But you can't assume, again, that 'Bernie woulda won!' because the videos of him taking shots at the USA standing under communist flags are out there. There was no campaign against Bernie. The GOP would've red-baited, 'bigly'. His comments about Castro and Cuba alone in the past would've spelled doom in Florida. Would he have held the rust belt? /Maybe/, but remember that Michigan has been electing GOP governors, Wisconsin has repeatedly elected Scott Walker, and more. I mean, shit, Bernie couldn't even get his people to organize properly to vote in primaries. You wanna put that in charge of a national operation?

You just can't say 'Bernie woudla won' without a whole lot of caveats.

Bernie's got some baggage of his own, afterall.

[IheartBatman]

I'm not so sure. Perhaps Bernie might've won the Rust Belt states (I've suspected Hillary never bothered campaigning there because she thought she couldn't win, so she allocated her time and resources elsewhere. Bad move? Yeah!), but that would've been offset by not having the support of blacks whom I don't think trusted him much, if at all, especially after his early missteps with BLM. In any event, the race certainly would've been closer than what we saw back in November, probably a toss up.

The only missteps with BLM came from the BLM movement acting like idiots. Sanders civil rights record and history with the movement was strong and bona fide. Clinton's wasn't, she was a Goldwater girl, after all. Not to mention the 'super predator' remarks.
Sanders would have easily won the Rust Belt states, because he has always been for the blue collar worker. Hillary didn't bother to campaign there, and even Obama mentioned that he stayed in Ohio for 82 days, while her campaign jet barely touched the tarmac.

[Tendrin]

Believe me, the GOP would have jumped on Bernie's socialist tendencies, a big dog whistle to conservatives even though they love their Social Security checks and Medicare. I do think he would have had stronger message than Hillary though.

I agree that Bernie's message resonated for a reason. I voted for the guy in the Oregon primary. But I think the assumption that he would've easily beat Trump is stronger. Trump's coalition is strong for a host of reasons.

[Iron Maiden]

Considering the baggage Hillary had before even running in the primaries, it really isn't much of a leap. Those DNC emails show that they wanted to push Trump as a viable candidate because he was easy to beat; Trump thought the same of Hillary. He did not want Sanders, because Sanders had more momentum and would have easily gone toe to toe with him, without the skeletons that Clinton had rattling around in her closet.

You are forgetting the fact that Bernie did lose big to Clinton in some key states. He simply didn't have the votes or he would have won the Primary. She had a 12 point cushion in the popular vote.

It's useless to look at last year anyway. Move forward with the present situation and stop living in the past.

[Tendrin]

The only missteps with BLM came from the BLM movement acting like idiots. Sanders civil rights record and history with the movement was strong and bona fide. Clinton's wasn't, she was a Goldwater girl, after all. Not to mention the 'super predator' remarks.
Sanders would have easily won the Rust Belt states, because he has always been for the blue collar worker. Hillary didn't bother to campaign there, and even Obama mentioned that he stayed in Ohio for 82 days, while her campaign jet barely touched the tarmac.

Certainly, Sanders would've run a different campaign.

So would've the Republicans.

That is my point.

As for Bernie's 'Civil Rights' bonafides, I'll let the many, many prominent African American activists who disagree with you speak for themselves.

[Tendrin]

You are forgetting the fact that Bernie did lose big to Clinton in some key states. He simply didn't have the votes or he would have won the Primary. She had a 12 point cushion in the popular vote.

It's useless to look at last year anyway. Move forward with the present situation.

I just can't stand it when people shout 'Bernie would've won!'. It's the same underestimation of Trump that helped get us here.

[Tendrin]

Double post .Sigh.

[IheartBatman]

AS we know, most concerns about Hillary amount to horseshit, between her emails, 'superpredators', and 'Goldman Sachs'.

Trump's concerns about Bernie are understandable, given that Trump's major concerns were about 'crowd sizes' and 'rallies'. But you can't assume, again, that 'Bernie woulda won!' because the videos of him taking shots at the USA standing under communist flags are out there. There was no campaign against Bernie. The GOP would've red-baited, 'bigly'. His comments about Castro and Cuba alone in the past would've spelled doom in Florida. Would he have held the rust belt? /Maybe/, but remember that Michigan has been electing GOP governors, Wisconsin has repeatedly elected Scott Walker, and more. I mean, shit, Bernie couldn't even get his people to organize properly to vote in primaries. You wanna put that in charge of a national operation?

You just can't say 'Bernie woudla won' without a whole lot of caveats.

Bernie's got some baggage of his own, afterall.

Clinton's baggage was far from bullshit. The perceived corruption along with the elitist attitude (and deciding to not bother campaigning in states that Obama won TWICE) was more than enough to sink her.
There's a reason that women voted for Trump over Clinton, and it has nothing to do with racism, etc. She didn't come off as trust worthy.
The DNC caused this mess, and I hope they learn their lessons for 2020.

[Tendrin]

Clinton's baggage was far from bullshit.

Most of what people were talking about was. There are legitimate issues to take with Clinton. We didn't really talk about those.

The perceived corruption

Propagandaized, you mean.

along with the elitist attitude (and deciding to not bother campaigning in states that Obama won TWICE) was more than enough to sink her.

I agree. She made mistakes in overlooking states she thought she was going to win. Data-driven campaigning turned out to be wrong because the data was wrong. She was trying to expand the map. Look at where she DID campaign. She thought she had a chance in places no Democrat had been in quite some time.

There's a reason that women voted for Trump over Clinton, and it has nothing to do with racism, etc. She didn't come off as trust worthy.

White women did, by a small margin, on the whole. This election was about whiteness. Just ask Van Jones.

The DNC caused this mess, and I hope they learn their lessons for 2020.

[/QUOTE]

There's plenty of blame to go around. Placing it all on the DNC is wrong headed.

[Iron Maiden]

Clinton's baggage was far from bullshit. The perceived corruption along with the elitist attitude (and deciding to not bother campaigning in states that Obama won TWICE) was more than enough to sink her.
There's a reason that women voted for Trump over Clinton, and it has nothing to do with racism, etc. She didn't come off as trust worthy.
The DNC caused this mess, and I hope they learn their lessons for 2020.

It saddens me when someone who I assume is Democrat buys into the decades long campaign to smear the Clintons that was perpetuated by the GOP with a big assist by Fox News and their ilk. I hope you didn't buy into the Pizzagate conspiracy story.

[Tami]

As they say: Could've, Would've, Should've.

As long as you are taking into account the human factor, you don't make logical analysis of the past with the argument "this Would have Happened if". The best you can do is acknowledge that "This didn't Happen" then ask why.

My biggest concern is getting the Democrats off of their defeatist attitude issues and start fighting to win elections. Elections are already starting across the country.

[Carabas]

Negative.

If there was a reason to question the validity of the reason that had for arresting the father, the family would just stay mum about it?

That's what makes sense to folks?

Stop dodging. I asked you what was legitimate about it. Why is this okay? An actual reason, in your own words.

Also, can you prove that the familyhas indeed stayed mum about it? Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

[Tuck]

As for Bernie's 'Civil Rights' bonafides, I'll let the many, many prominent African American activists who disagree with you speak for themselves.

I'm not going to tell someone else how to feel about Bernie's understanding of current race issues, but the man marched. The resume is not blank there.

What would have killed him is that there is video of him defending communist dictators.