All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!

[numberthirty]

"Should" doesn't enter the conversation.

Being an opportunist who joins the party just to run for president is not going to make you popular with members of that party.

As opposed to the longtime member who failed to be popular enough with the party members to win a general?

[aja_christopher]

Also forgot to mention that black people can get killed for doing so, so that's an issue as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King_Jr.

[Ragged Maw]

Also forgot to mention that black people can get killed for doing so, so that's an issue as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King_Jr.

Obviously, the risk back then was way greater than it is now.

[aja_christopher]

Obviously, the risk back then was way greater than it is now.

I'd like to think so, but given the last election I can't say that's for certain.

The fact is, we haven't seen anyone speak out on these issues at the level of MLK (or Malcolm X) since. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton lack his charisma, as well as his eloquence, and most importantly, his unyielding focus on speaking the truth to power.

Obama is worlds away from MLK Jr -- certainly well spoken, but not nearly as outspoken -- especially on matters of race.

And if he had been, no one can say for certain how some segments of the American population might have reacted to that... especially on issues like the Second Amendment (gun control).

Edit: I have to admit -- Obama was pretty outspoken on the issue of gun control, and it's a little ironic to think it was easier (and safer) for him to talk about that than it was for him to talk about "race".

[ImprobableQuestion]

As opposed to the longtime member who failed to be popular enough with the party members to win a general?

Popularity had nothing to do with it. Trump's popularity was also in the toilet, the FBI treason happened to be in his favor.

[numberthirty]

Popularity had nothing to do with it. Trump's popularity was also in the toilet, the FBI treason happened to be in his favor.

Or actually showing and campaigning up works. Seemed like that was the way Obama beat HRC, as well.

Sure those two have nothing to do with each other.

[wjowski]

If you think the investigation was important in any way other than to hurt her, then I suppose you could make that argument. I voted Sanders in the primary but I figured he would eventually disappoint me on his environmental policy while he made his crusade against Wall Street. I only vote on one issue, to be honest, because it's the most important one.

It was engineered to hurt her. And it worked like a charm.

No, we're just watching pathetic attempts by conservatives on this forum to change the subject away from top Trump administration members, if not Trump himself being compromised by the Russians and being hounded by the Intelligence Community for it.

Seriously, guys, why are we still seeing distraction tactics that became irrelevant over six months ago?

Trump is the distraction. His cabinet is in chaos, his executive orders are being stymied by the courts, his public image (what's left of it) is being destroyed by scandal, and even his own party holds him at arm's length. His agenda is all but stillborn thanks to his incompetence and inability to navigate the legal and legislative realities of the Presidency.

The real danger was and still is the GOP's nigh-unchallenged hold over almost every level of government and the Democrats' lack of a strategy for fighting it.

[master of read]

I'd like to think so, but given the last election I can't say that's for certain.

The fact is, we haven't seen anyone speak out on these issues at the level of MLK (or Malcolm X) since. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton lack his charisma, as well as his eloquence, and most importantly, his unyielding focus on speaking the truth to power.

Obama is worlds away from MLK Jr -- certainly well spoken, but not nearly as outspoken -- especially on matters of race.

And if he had been, no one can say for certain how some segments of the American population might have reacted to that... especially on issues like the Second Amendment (gun control).

Edit: I have to admit -- Obama was pretty outspoken on the issue of gun control, and it's a little ironic to think it was easier (and safer) for him to talk about that than it was for him to talk about "race".

mostly because if obama really went hard on talking about race, the reps and fox news would come out and say how he "hates white people" and "fanning the flames of racism".

the fact remains that when any prominent black person says ANYTHING about racism in this country, they get demonized as race baiters. you could president, a football player making a point, a actor talking about inequality, or a musician wanting to bring to light the issue of racial profiling.

[Darkspellmaster]

Some rather interesting news from abroad....

Trump sons Eric, Donald Jr. to attend ‘closed’ Dubai links-opening event

The 18-hole Dubai golf course is part of a larger villa and apartment building project by DAMAC Properties, a Dubai-based developer owned by billionaire Hussain Sajwani. Recently renamed DAMAC Hills, the project surrounds the golf club managed by the Trump Organization.

One of the Trump Organization’s subsidiaries received from $1 million to $5 million from DAMAC, according to a U.S. Federal Election Committee report submitted in May. Sajwani and his family also attended a New Year’s Eve celebration at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago club in Florida, while Trump days later told journalists that DAMAC had offered the Trump Organization $2 billion in deals.

The Dubai golf course marks Trump’s first successful venture in the Arab world. Another Trump-managed golf course is planned for another even larger DAMAC project under development and the developer has been putting up billboards around Dubai advertising the newly opened course.

It’s unclear what security precautions will be taken for the visit, as experts already have warned the Trump brand abroad now faces a global terror risk .

Both Eric and Donald Jr. receive Secret Service protection as immediate family members of the president. The U.S. Embassy in Abu Dhabi has declined comment about the trip, while Dubai police did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

This latter point doesn't bode bad at all for any of the many trump run businesses, some in large cities. : /

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pentagon may recommend combat troops for Islamic State fight in Syria: CNN

WASHINGTON – The U.S. Defense Department may recommend that the United States deploy regular combat troops to Syria to fight Islamic State militants, CNN reported on Wednesday.

The idea is one of several ideas the Pentagon is considering after President Donald Trump gave defense officials until the end of the month to come up with proposals to speed up the war against Islamic State.

Why does this feel like I've seen this before...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ties to Japan may factor in Kim Jong Nam’s mysterious murder


Something interesting about NK's leader...

According to Ken Kato, director of the group Human Rights in Asia, Kim Jong Un may in fact be a “traitor” to the very country he rules through his family lineage.

In 2012, Kato unearthed documents that revealed Kim Jong Un’s maternal grandfather had worked in a sewing factory that made uniforms for the wartime Japanese military in Osaka, where Kim’s mother, Ko Yong Hui, was born.

This discovery, Kato said, would make the grandfather a “collaborator” — a grouping that Kim Jong Un’s other grandfather, North Korean founder Kim Il Sung, said “must be eliminated through three generations,” potentially affecting the young leader.

“Technically, Kim Jong Un could have been defined as a traitor and could be in a labor camp,” Kato said. “So we can infer that Jong Un might have been planning on killing his elder brother as he could threaten his status.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~

Looks like Pence is planning on going to Japan in April

Pence would meet with Deputy Prime Minister Taro Aso, who doubles as finance minister, to discuss ways to expand trade and investment between the two countries, the sources said.

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and President Donald Trump agreed last week at their summit in Washington to launch a framework to discuss bilateral trade in the wake of the U.S. withdrawal from the multilateral Trans-Pacific Partnership.

The framework, to be overseen by Aso and Pence, will cover bilateral discussions on trade, fiscal and monetary policies as well as infrastructure and energy projects.

Abe and Trump also agreed Friday to hold summits every time they take part in international meetings together.

They are expected to meet on the sidelines of the Group of Seven summit to be held in Italy in May and confirm what would be discussed at the planned economic dialogue, the source said.

>_> I'm side-eyeing this as Abe right now has a secret law set up that could be used to keep info about those summits out of the press. Hmmmm....

Also, since when does Pence have any economic skills in such matters? Last I checked being a governor of a state doesn't mean you know how to create a bilateral framework.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Surprised this wasn't talked much about...

Trump says "I'm happy with the one they like the best" in regard to a choice between two states or one state for the Israel/Palestinian conflict.

“I’m looking at two states and one state, and I like the one both parties like,” Trump told a joint news conference with Netanyahu. “I can live with either one.”

Trump vowed to work toward a peace deal between Israel and Palestinians but said it would require compromise on both sides, leaving it up to the parties themselves ultimately to reach the terms of any agreement.

But he offered no new prescription for achieving an accord that has eluded so many of his predecessors, and Palestinian anger over his abandonment of their goal of statehood could scrap any chance of coaxing them back to the negotiating table.

Dropping a bombshell on Netanyahu as they faced reporters just before sitting down for talks, Trump told him: “I’d like to see you pull back on settlements for a little bit.” (For a little bit. That's like saying, hey would you mind not dropping contamination in the water for a little bit. You can go back to it when people forget about it.)

The right-wing Israeli leader, who may have expected more decidedly pro-Israel rhetoric as the two sought to get past years of feuding with Trump’s Democratic predecessor Barack Obama, appeared startled.
Foreshadowing Trump’s policy shift, a senior White House official said on Tuesday that peace did not necessarily have to entail Palestinian statehood. Palestinians responded by warning Trump that such a move would seriously damage U.S. credibility.

Trump suggested that he could abide by whatever path the two parties decided. “I’m happy with the one they like the best,” Trump said.

But Trump also managed to catch Netanyahu off-guard, at one point saying that if a solution to the Israel-Palestinian conflict was going to be reached “both sides will have to make compromises”. The president then turned to Netanyahu and said:
“You know that, right?” Netanyahu looked momentarily startled and replied with a chuckle, “Both sides.”

The two leaders, who seemed to strike up an emerging
“bromance” in social media exchanges since the election, sought to demonstrate good personal chemistry face-to-face as well, both sporting smiles and exchanging asides.

"Oh sure donald, we'll make consessions. Well give you the land and you can build us a new golf course."

Not a fan of the Israel PM and him being so chummy with Trump makes my skin crawl.

[aja_christopher]

mostly because if obama really went hard on talking about race, the reps and fox news would come out and say how he "hates white people" and "fanning the flames of racism".

the fact remains that when any prominent black person says ANYTHING about racism in this country, they get demonized as race baiters. you could president, a football player making a point, a actor talking about inequality, or a musician wanting to bring to light the issue of racial profiling.

That's kind of my point -- and that's exactly what happened to MLK Jr.

People today act like MLK Jr was loved and respected by all when in fact he was out there unyieldingly leading protests and getting beaten by cops and spit on by people who saw him as an "uppity negro".

I just don't see where -- in a world where people like Dylan Roof will walk into a black church and shoot innocent elderly black people after praying with them -- the same wouldn't happen to any other black person who was as outspoken and active about racism and social injustice as MLK Jr was.

Fortunately, a lot of the issues he spoke out against (such as segregation) have since been alleviated by law -- but that only happened to address the rioting that occurred after his assassination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_assassination_riots

Not that everything is doom and gloom in that respect -- a lot of racial issues are addressed directly through the political process these days, which is one of the primary reasons why it's important to protect the voting rights of the most oppressed in our society.

Otherwise... you wind up with Bush Jr and Trump, and the potential for more riots.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florid...the_purge_list



"A riot is the language of the unheard."

[Tuck]

Nelson Mandela was on the US terrorism watch-list until 2008.

[master of read]

That's kind of my point -- and that's exactly what happened to MLK Jr.

People today act like MLK Jr was loved and respected by all when in fact he was out there unyieldingly leading protests and getting beaten by cops and spit on by people who saw him as an "uppity negro".

I just don't see where -- in a world where people like Dylan Roof will walk into a black church and shoot innocent elderly black people after praying with them -- the same wouldn't happen to any other black person who was as outspoken and active about racism and social injustice as MLK Jr was.

Fortunately, a lot of the issues he spoke out against (such as segregation) have since been alleviated by law -- but that only happened to address the rioting that occurred after his assassination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_assassination_riots

Not that everything is doom and gloom in that respect -- a lot of racial issues are addressed directly through the political process these days, which is one of the primary reasons why it's important to protect the voting rights of the most oppressed in our society.

Otherwise... you wind up with Bush Jr and Trump, and the potential for more riots.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florid...the_purge_list



"A riot is the language of the unheard."

yup. like with a lot of things in the country, until we talk about racism, and i mean REALLY talk about it, it's just gonna keep getting worse.

and i should know. my parents were on the bad end of it.

and me too. i got stopped by some cops in KC years ago. said me and my friend looked like a pair of burglary suspects, which was horse crap since neither of us had any warrants or priors. in fact, my friend was ex-NYPD and ATF.

so maybe obama didn't do enough for black folks but he did do one thing that they said was impossible: he got elected. twice.

but even if he did say something, doubtful that anything would change. because like you said, most americans are cowards to racism.

[master of read]

Nelson Mandela was on the US terrorism watch-list until 2008.

first time i've heard this but it frankly doesn't surprise me.

[Malvolio]

Not sure if I'm getting the George Carlin quote 100% correct, but: "When you're born, you get a ticket to the freak show, and when you're born an American, you get a front row seat."

Oh, and to the argument about Bernie Sanders' supporters being far more passionate than Hillary's supporters, that only matters if you believe that there were Hillary supporters in the rust belt who stayed home out of a mistaken belief that she had the election in the bag. The reality is that no matter how passionate you are, you can only vote but once. If passion were so important, Ron Paul would have already served two terms as President.

[aja_christopher]

yup. like with a lot of things in the country, until we talk about racism, and i mean REALLY talk about it, it's just gonna keep getting worse.

and i should know. my parents were on the bad end of it.

and me too. i got stopped by some cops in KC years ago. said me and my friend looked like a pair of burglary suspects, which was horse crap since neither of us had any warrants or priors. in fact, my friend was ex-NYPD and ATF.

That's happened to me plenty of times at USC and out in Santa Monica as well -- they even handcuffed me once when I was downtown for about twenty minutes because they said I "matched the profile" of a "suspect".

No criminal record to speak of outside of a jaywalking ticket I got for crossing a few seconds before the light changed -- while other (white) students did the same without punishment.