All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!

[BeastieRunner]

pretty much

good summary

It's missing a rather big one, though.

Protesting using a culturally appropriated torch.

[aja_christopher]

I see a system with all sorts of consequences for bad police work, legal and extralegal. Cops are getting suspended/fired and/or jailed, some are not. We have PD dept procedures and laws and our adversarial court system to address potential criminal acts. You and others aren't judge, jury and executioner.

I never claimed to be anything but someone who has been profiled and harassed by police officers, the same as many other people of color have in this country, to the point where we feel the need to protest said behavior.

And of course you "see" a system that works as it should, because you're not the target and/or victim of said system.

Stop trying to move the goalposts -- no one is "judging and executing" anyone here except the police officers in question, which is exactly what is being protested.



"The Guardian revealed in December that immediately after the shooting, police aggressively questioned Crawford's girlfriend, Tasha Thomas, threatening her with jail time. The interrogation caused her to sob uncontrollably, with hostile questions suggesting she was drunk or on drugs when she stated that Crawford did not enter the store with a gun. She was not yet aware of Crawford's death at the time of the interrogation.

Following the shooting a grand jury decided not to indict any of the officers involved on charges of either murder, reckless homicide, or negligent homicide."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooti...n_Crawford_III

[Old Man Ollie 1962]

One of the most heinous hate crimes I read about.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b05063fe0e7183

[TheDarman]

Peaceful disrespect fueled by a left undercurrent of anti-Americanism. The violence is saved for the properly permitted political assemblies, Trump supporters attending Trump rallies, police working such events, etc.

"Anti-Americanism"? I don't understand what that means. Was Martin Luther King Jr. an Anti-American because he protested in the streets and insisted that America had been downright cruel to people of color? What forms of protest won't get you labeled Anti-American? You protest like MLK and you have conservatives telling people to stop blocking roads or getting in the way. You protest totally peacefully, not putting an undue burden on anyone else, they lamblast you for kneeling during the anthem--one of the ways to make a statement without doing the things that they crucify you for doing. You protest using your social media platform--and the president insists you should be fired for that as well. I'd argue the real "Anti-Americanism" is the idea that we should engage in cyclical logic. That, somehow, using the freedom of speech that people fought and died to give us to fix our country when it does stray away from the right path is disrespectful to those who fought and died to give us that right. They fought violently overseas, and even here, so that we wouldn't have to fight so violently for change here. As JFK once said: "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable."

The same conservative morons who are pissed about the NFL protests because they're disrespecting the flag are the folks rallying around a pothead who can cut a hole in the middle of the flag and wear it like a poncho... as a Senate candidate.



They're the same people arguing for the Klan to run around Charlottesville waving the Confederate flag, a rebellion against the Union engineered because they refused to not keep slaves.



This whole thing is the biggest full of s*** "we're patriots because nationalism" argument in recent memory. And it's being engineered by a white nationalist who dodged the goddamned draft, insulted a war hero, a Gold Star family, and falsely accused troops of stealing money meant to rebuild Iraq. Anyone taking Trump's side in this is a hypocritical f***ing moron, and I can't say that any nicer way.

Trump really couldn't care less about "respecting" the troops. There isn't any moral consistency here. How is it disrespectful for people to kneel during the national anthem, using a form of protest bequeathed to them by this nation, but not people who fly the colors of the only time there was a semi-successful violent insurrection against the United States of America? You can love the United States...or you can love the only "country" (insurgency, rather) dedicated solely to its annihilation (as it stood at the time).

I see a system with all sorts of consequences for bad police work, legal and extralegal. Cops are getting suspended/fired and/or jailed, some are not. We have PD dept procedures and laws and our adversarial court system to address potential criminal acts. You and others aren't judge, jury and executioner. And you don't tell everyone what is fact and what is not.

This is incredibly naive. If that were true, Tamir Rice's murderers wouldn't have gotten off without so much as a slap on the wrist. Why is it that the rules of engagement for military personnel, actively risking their lives in actual war zones, have more stringent requirements for engagement with a potential enemy than police officers have here? In the United States, we are all American citizens and have no classification as enemy combatants and, yet, enemy combatants are given more of a benefit of the doubt by our laws than American citizens are. That seems really backwards to me.

As for the rest of the system...it isn't particularly adversarial. The people usually in charge of bringing charges, and arguing cases against, police officers are typically District Attorneys and the like, who work day-in and day-out with police officers. The only time there might be an element of true adversarial nature is when the federal government investigates local officers. Indeed, I think that we should probably just start doing that instead of allowing these DAs to get their buddies off for actual murder--the stuff that they are designated officers of the law to prevent.

[InvincibleDom]

I never claimed to be anything but someone who has been profiled and harassed by police officers, the same as many other people of color have in this country, to the point where we feel the need to protest said behavior.

And of course you "see" a system that works as it should, because you're not the target and/or victim of said system.

These types of comments and the video make the opposing sides defense the hardest to stomach... Even if such activity happens less than 1% of the time (police brutality or the injustice of murder of minorities by police for no reason) isn't it worse for such actions to be continually happening in America more so than a few athletes taking a knee just before a football game?

If we had a morality or respect scale, why is pointing to something that is actually killing innocent people somehow worse than the actual killing of people? Your few minutes before the game starting is so beyond reproach that the merest hint of discord has ruined everything? I get legitimately angry at the other side. How can people simply not care about other Americans and their lives so much that they would rather defend a cultural norm over really looking at a broken system? Do we really not care about minorities this much? It makes no sense to me.

[aja_christopher]

These types of comments and the video make the opposing sides defense the hardest to stomach... Even if such activity happens less than 1% of the time (police brutality or the injustice of murder of minorities by police for no reason) isn't it worse for such actions to be continually happening in America more so than a few athletes taking a knee just before a football game?

If we had a morality or respect scale, why is pointing to something that is actually killing innocent people somehow worse than the actual killing of people? Your few minutes before the game starting is so beyond reproach that the merest hint of discord has ruined everything? I get legitimately angry at the other side. How can people simply not care about other Americans and their lives so much that they would rather defend a cultural norm over really looking at a broken system?

You're asking the right questions, and the unfortunate truth is that you already know the answer as well.

[InvincibleDom]

This is incredibly naive. If that were true, Tamir Rice's murderers wouldn't have gotten off without so much as a slap on the wrist. Why is it that the rules of engagement for military personnel, actively risking their lives in actual war zones, have more stringent requirements for engagement with a potential enemy than police officers have here? In the United States, we are all American citizens and have no classification as enemy combatants and, yet, enemy combatants are given more of a benefit of the doubt by our laws than American citizens are. That seems really backwards to me.

Super agree with this. My military time made it very clear the consequences of doing the types of things the police are allowed to do daily. Rice was an egregious example that, for whatever reason, he simply did not matter to the police, the community and the city of Cleveland. I grew up there, born and raised, and I never would imagine such an action was acceptable in my city. Not from the cops that I dealt with. I am obviously much older, but the stuff we did and got away with pales to a kid playing with a bb gun in broad day light in an open carry state. This cop should have never been hired, was fired from the suburbs for not meeting the standard and yet a few years later, he gets away with murder and people do nothing.

They shot him like a dog within 2 seconds of arriving. We erect laws in this country when ONE person dies in some set of unusual circumstance UNLESS it is minorities in interaction with police. I don't think it unreasonable to have a few athletes taking a knee until this type of action never happens again.

[master of read]

No -- it's peaceful PROTEST fueled by police officers harassing and abusing people of color like myself at their leisure, and even killing us without consequence just because they claim to "fear for their life": the fact that you -- and people like you -- keep conveniently dodging this fact speaks volumes about your lack of concern for the lives of people like myself.

Even though I just posted evidence of a situation where I was recently harassed and unfairly targeted by police officers during my trip to Austin, Texas -- officers who even went so far as to accuse me of stealing the car that I was driving without any proof whatsoever -- you'll continue to deflect from said issue and try to make this about being "anti-American" rather than about taking a stand against the systemic discrimination against people of color in our society.

I don't say this with any expectation of you admitting the truth about what these protests are really all about -- in fact, I say it with the full knowledge that people like you just don't care that this happens, so long as it doesn't happen to you.

as someone else who's been wrongfully profiled as well, i more than understand. if you've never been profiled like this, you can't understand how scary and shameful it feels. and if you can't understand why people are taking a knee in the first place, in this day and age of free information, then you either are willfully ignorant of the racial issues in american or you willingly support it. there is no in-between on this.

[Joker]

Peaceful disrespect fueled by a left undercurrent of anti-Americanism. The violence is saved for the properly permitted political assemblies, Trump supporters attending Trump rallies, police working such events, etc.

You're talking about the racists again, right? Because you're always defending their rights while simultaneously saying that professional athletes don't have the right to kneel during a song. Which is perfectly legal, by the way.

You know what disrespects the flag? Defending racists who walk abound with Nazi flags or Confederate flags. You know why? Because those two flags fly in direct opposition to everything America was founded for.

You know what doesn't disrespect the flag? Suggesting that all American's be treated equally.

[Iron Maiden]

These types of comments and the video make the opposing sides defense the hardest to stomach... Even if such activity happens less than 1% of the time (police brutality or the injustice of murder of minorities by police for no reason) isn't it worse for such actions to be continually happening in America more so than a few athletes taking a knee just before a football game?

If we had a morality or respect scale, why is pointing to something that is actually killing innocent people somehow worse than the actual killing of people? Your few minutes before the game starting is so beyond reproach that the merest hint of discord has ruined everything? I get legitimately angry at the other side. How can people simply not care about other Americans and their lives so much that they would rather defend a cultural norm over really looking at a broken system? Do we really not care about minorities this much? It makes no sense to me.

It makes you wonder what was going on before cell phone videos.

[JBatmanFan05]

while simultaneously saying that professional athletes don't have the right to kneel during a song.

Wrong! Putting words in my mouth. They have the right and I have the right to think they should abstain from doing that during the anthem.

[InformationGeek]

In other news, Steve Scalise has recovered enough to return back to Capital Hill. I'm not a fan of the guy in the slightest, but hey, he's back on his feet and I'm sure friends and family are happy, so I'll hold my tongue.

[Joker]

Wrong! Putting words in my mouth. They have the right and I have the right to think they should abstain from doing that during the anthem.

Any why do you think that? Why don't you think Nazi's should feel unwelcome to assemble in public?

Why do you seem to have stronger feelings about black athletes than white suprematists?

Also, why ignore the rest of my post?

[aja_christopher]

It makes you wonder what was going on before cell phone videos.

Straight from an officer's mouth.

-----------

"N----- drivin' a Porsche that doesn't look like he's got a $300 suit on, you always stop him."

"He was a n-----. He didn't belong. Two questions. And you are going: Where do you live? 22nd and Western. Where were you going? Well, I'm going to Fatburger. Where's Fatburger. He didn't know where Fatburger was? Get in the car."

"Q: Why are you even talking to them?

A: N-----. Stop them. See who they are.

Q: You don't have any probable cause? You just want to talk to them?

A: ...probable cause. You're God."

"When I left, Dana goes, `No blood Mark.' `No problem, not even any marks, Dana.' Just body shots. Did you ever try to find a bruise on a N-----? It is pretty tough, huh?"

"We stopped the choke because a bunch of N------ have a bunch of these organizations in the south end, and because all N------ are choked out and killed."

http://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Info/fuhrman.html

[master of read]

Straight from an officer's mouth.

http://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Info/fuhrman.html

and some people still think that this stuff only just started when obama come into office. this **** has been going on for decades. only now can we see it thanks to camera phones and social media.