All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!

[InvincibleDom]

First off, money isn't everything…

I am officially asking for you pick a stance and stick with it. You said I was wrong about the money data, you pointed to a location for said information, didn’t quote all the information presented and when I point it out now this point is not important. Ok. I can live with that, but please if you are going to present a debate point at least concede when someone fact checks you. It’s civil.

More importantly, things are still better than they were in the past…progress is not an overnight affair and it's most likely going to take generations before there is any real parity in this country... and the election of Trump.

So this is the new debate point on why I should have went out to vote for Hillary? Ok I will bite. When you state the “past” how far are we going or need to go before the parity develops? Civil War forward? That sure is a long time to wait and hope for the scales to balance. Of course one could rationally argue that the issue is a direct result of the individuals who are not making the progress happen for themselves. My counter to that is the billions and billions of aid we sprinkle throughout the world for causes big and small which never directly affect the average US citizen. An interesting side note, check out the total aid we supply to the world through various campaigns and activities. I believe Israel is in triple digit billions, but don’t quote me directly. My point is again why should I accept a system which accepts only treating the symptoms of the problem with the inner cities of America and not the root causes when we dump money to the world for a host of other concerns?

If the issue is legitimately a problem with individuals and how they conduct activities on a micro level, why would I support a system that has turned a blind eye to home? I am having difficulty drawing a direct connection to your point and the election of Hillary Vs Donald but overall neither vote is still not changing this fundamental concern. Me accepting slow and gradual change over the course of centuries also doesn’t really change my vote for specific candidate.

Regardless, you don't tear everything down just because things aren't perfect…enough to vote since many of them fought for you to have that right.

I get confused on this stance. I served my time in the military; fought in a war. I pay my taxes on time. I participate in my community, both for minorities and everyone else, because I felt duty bound to do such things. I am a citizen. My forefathers were all about rebellion and going against things they didn’t agree with. They fought for it. So excuse me if I feel a little lost on you telling me when I shouldn’t “tear things down”. I earned my “right” to choose to support or not support whomever I feel like. Every other nation and civilization that was long standing and worth anything fought for what they believed in. They didn’t just accept the lesser evil. I owe it to my ancestors to say, “It’s 2017, and we still are not on an even playing field with everyone else”. Has voting for the party I am supposed to fixed that? Maybe in a few more centuries. I was unwilling to wait and again, Hillary made it clear that invincibledom, who did everything I was supposed to do still wasn’t important enough to focus attention on.

I know it is easy to blame me, the voter. But again, I am not the one who lost the election for Hillary, she was. My vote didn’t decide the course of the nation, nor did I expect it to. But pointing at me, the guy who does what he is supposed to do and just didn’t vote one time for the person who didn’t care about my concerns seems a little silly when you put it into perspective.

Honestly, though, you're an adult at this point and this isn't even a discussion I feel like I should be having -- you asked for this, and you got it, so good luck.

Great. so let’s agree that we have no idea what the right answer will be and hopefully it works out for both of us. But if all the Hillary supporters think in four years you can just guilt everyone into voting for another subpar candidate again, I hope you have a strong plan b.

[InvincibleDom]

Lies and false assumptions are not equally valid as informed opinions based on facts.

You obviously don't even know how the primary process worked (hint: it consisted of several primaries and several caucuses, none of which Hillary "rigged"). So I suggest that you spend a few weeks reading up* on the 2016 elections before you continue posting of it, because you already made an utter fool of yourself plenty for one day.

Let's try to move above name calling... we are too mature for that. You used the word caucuses I used the term DNC. Funny you should use the term "facts". Let's review basic bio information for Debbie Wasserman Schultz:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debbie_Wasserman_Schultz

I think this quote is pretty relevant: Wasserman Schultz was elected chairperson of the Democratic National Committee in May 2011, replacing Virginia Senator Tim Kaine.[2][3] On July 24, 2016, Wasserman Schultz announced her resignation from her position after Wikileaks released a collection of hacked emails indicating that Wasserman Schultz and other members of the DNC staff showed bias against the presidential campaign of Senator Bernie Sanders in favor of Hillary Clinton's campaign.[3] Her resignation was finalized on July 28 following the 2016 Democratic National Convention.[4] She was subsequently appointed honorary chair of the Clinton campaign's "50 state program".

So factually, do you think Clinton offering her a position right after she resigns points to them have a professional and social relationship which would appear inappropriate considering demonstrated emails which showed bias to the Sanders campaign?

[Dalak]

Maybe. Let's see how it plays out. I never ignore anyone's opinion based on your descriptors though. Some of my best friends have been...

from Texas

We've been seeing how it plays out for the past 8 months, do you think it's actually going to get better for anyone other than those richer and whiter than me?

also Congress failed to extend funding for the CHIP program

so 9 million children just lost healthcare coverage

Yeah, I pointed that out too but it got lost in more rehashing of 2016.

[InvincibleDom]

Here is another good article:

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/24/po...aks/index.html

a relevant passage:

Clinton prods DNC for intervention
In another email, an attorney for the Clinton campaign appears to advise the DNC on how to respond to a dispute between the two campaigns over how much money Clinton's operation had raised for state parties. Sanders' campaign charged that Clinton's team was not handing over its fair share of its fundraising, which Sanders' campaign manager Jeff Weaver said was "laundering" and "looting."
"My suggestion is that the DNC put out a statement saying that the accusations the Sanders campaign are not true. The fact that CNN notes that you aren't getting between the two campaigns is the problem," Marc E. Elias wrote. "Here, Sanders is attacking the DNC and its current practice, its past practice with the POTUS and with Sec Kerry. Just as the RNC pushes back directly on Trump over 'rigged system,' the DNC should push back DIRECTLY at Sanders and say that what he is saying is false and harmful (to) the Democratic party."

[TheInvisibleMan]

why are we still talking about this?

WHY

WHY

[Kevinroc]

why are we still talking about this?

WHY

WHY

Because it's easier than facing the nightmare reality we currently exist in.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

also Congress failed to extend funding for the CHIP program

so 9 million children just lost healthcare coverage

This is reprehensible, but keeping in character with Trump's Abominable Administration which hates everything that isn't male, white, rich, Christian, right wing and crazy for guns and big business.

[Diamond]

AP is reporting that 761 people have been injured in Catalunia because of police brutality, because the police was not allowing people to go and vote.

Definitely a mistake to do that. Among the different groups of people seeking independence, there is a narrative that, from my perspective, seems to be growing, which is that Spain is a backwards country that hates and oppresses Catalans. God knows I've had colleagues who at some point began seeing me as a "Spanish enemy" for not agreeing with them.

On the other hand, I can understand the overreacting even though it was a mistake. The Catalan government appeared aggressive and threatening because of the anarchists, who, by not recognizing any state authority, are pushing the mainstream parties to escalate the situation as far as they can.

But honestly, even in the unlikely case the anarchists are ousted of parliament, there is no way to fix this. For better or worse, half of Catalonia just wants to get out and the other half wants to stay in. I don't see any possible middle ground. Our society will be deeply divided for quite some time. Personally, I've already lost some good friends who have chosen to put politics over our personal bonds.

[SquirrelMan]

Because it's easier than facing the nightmare reality we currently exist in.

Because people need to find a basis for the denial of their complicity in the deaths of innocent Puerto Ricans.

[TheInvisibleMan]

This is reprehensible, but keeping in character with Trump's Abominable Administration which hates everything that isn't male, white, rich, Christian, right wing and crazy for guns and big business.

well every "person" that is trying to defend Orange Foolius on PR is getting smoked like a Christmas Ham on tv this morning, so there's that

[mojotastic]

Definitely a mistake to do that. Among the different groups of people seeking independence, there is a narrative that, from my perspective, seems to be growing, which is that Spain is a backwards country that hates and oppresses Catalans. God knows I've had colleagues who at some point began seeing me as a "Spanish enemy" for not agreeing with them.

On the other hand, I can understand the overreacting even though it was a mistake. The Catalan government appeared aggressive and threatening because of the anarchists, who, by not recognizing any state authority, are pushing the mainstream parties to escalate the situation as far as they can.

But honestly, even in the unlikely case the anarchists are ousted of parliament, there is no way to fix this. For better or worse, half of Catalonia just wants to get out and the other half wants to stay in. I don't see any possible middle ground. Our society will be deeply divided for quite some time. Personally, I've already lost some good friends who have chosen to put politics over our personal bonds.

Who are these anarchist you are talking about if i may ask?

[TheInvisibleMan]

Definitely a mistake to do that. Among the different groups of people seeking independence, there is a narrative that, from my perspective, seems to be growing, which is that Spain is a backwards country that hates and oppresses Catalans. God knows I've had colleagues who at some point began seeing me as a "Spanish enemy" for not agreeing with them.

On the other hand, I can understand the overreacting even though it was a mistake. The Catalan government appeared aggressive and threatening because of the anarchists, who, by not recognizing any state authority, are pushing the mainstream parties to escalate the situation as far as they can.

But honestly, even in the unlikely case the anarchists are ousted of parliament, there is no way to fix this. For better or worse, half of Catalonia just wants to get out and the other half wants to stay in. I don't see any possible middle ground. Our society will be deeply divided for quite some time. Personally, I've already lost some good friends who have chosen to put politics over our personal bonds.

really?

or maybe its decency vs defending this s**tshow of an administration

Ive cut people out because they don't get it, nor will they ever get it, and its not my job to attempt to educate them

[Diamond]

really?

or maybe its decency vs defending this s**tshow of an administration

Ive cut people out because they don't get it, nor will they ever get it, and its not my job to attempt to educate them

Dude, opposing the independence of Catalonia is not the same as supporting the current administration in Spain. Is it hard to understand?

[TheInvisibleMan]

Dude, opposing the independence of Catalonia is not the same as supporting the current administration in Spain. Is it hard to understand?

my bad, I misread, as you were referring to Spain

sorry

[Diamond]

Who are these anarchist you are talking about if i may ask?

They call themselves CUP (Candidatura de Unión Popular). As I explained in my previous post, they hold enough seats in the parliament that the independence movement needs their support. They were voted because of their radicalism; people got fed up by the Catalan mainstream parties not doing enough. They've become milder but every once in a while you see them endorsing things as harassing foreign tourists to protest the city's being so crowded.