All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!

[Tendrin]

I believe in DACA. And most people support it. But when they actually ran polls on it, people said DACA was not worth a government shutdown. So I suspect that while people are in favor of it, it's not going to be the magic single issue that gets people out the door. I still think the Democrats should have strong wins in 2018

Okay, but that's not the point I was responding to.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

and they put us here

and I will never let them forget it

You can say whatever you want about Bernie supporters, but one side had the DNC slanting the whole primary for them, one side got exactly what they wanted. They wanted Hillary and they wanted her to face Trump as they saw him as a lay up. The fact that they ran a horrible campaign and gave their base no incentive to turnout isn't the voters fault. At the end of the day the DNC and Hillary campaign spit in Bernie supporters faces by working the primary process and trying to paint Bernie supporters as a bunch of brainless misogynists who had ideas but no plans. You don't get the benefit of hoping they forget that. And don't forget.... alot of Obama voters abandoned Hillary too. They didn't forget 2008 either. Some times what goes around, comes around. And there was a lot going around.

[KOSLOX]

2020 won't have a candidate who *twice* attempted to build an aura of inevitability around her and had a 30 year machine in place to help push that narrative. I imagine it will be a much more crowded field which plays to a fired up base, similar to the R side in 2016.

[ZombieHavoc]

2020 won't have a candidate who *twice* attempted to build an aura of inevitability around her and had a 30 year machine in place to help push that narrative. I imagine it will be a much more crowded field which plays to a fired up base, similar to the R side in 2016.

Yeah, but I have a feeling there is gonna be a lot of...issues...for people on either side of the left if their person does not get the candidacy.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I can pretty much agree with all that. Except I really like Gillbrand, Booker and Harris, but I get what you're saying.

It still bums me out. I'd prefer a nice lefty far left leftist, but I'd also vote for Manchin in a heartbeat if ended up being him vs. Trump.

I hope the primaries are somehow more civil. I feel like both Bernie and Hillary demonized the other quite a bit, and we already have this problem with bubbles, echo chambers, social media and tribalism. They became the non-democrat, socialist outsider loon vs the establishment crony capitalist, and once they became that versus contenders for the democratic ticket, their bases were ingrained with opposition for the other.

The primaries were like that on the right, too, or more Trump just calling everyone else names and yelling about Mexicans....but those guys know how to fall in line. Or I guess, more like they know how to appease their rich donors that want tax cuts for the rich.

They should just run Warren. She's the compromise imo. Bernie voters will turnout for her and the establishment has viewed her as a darling for awhile. She also has a track record of being a great campaigner and debater and she also beat a relatively popular Senator to win her seat.

[KOSLOX]

Yeah, but I have a feeling there is gonna be a lot of...issues...for people on either side of the left if their person does not get the candidacy.

I don't think you'll get the same narrative of someone stealing a nomination though. The winner will actually have to fight for it, probably through a long season.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

racism and sexism are the glue that hold the GOP together

That, and a hive mind like mentality that puts the Borg to shame. Case in point: During the campaign, Trump insulted Ted Cruz's wife and intimated that his father was in on the JFK assassination, unpardonable sins in my book because the orange bastard attacked a man's family, and yet, last night, Cruz couldn't kiss Trump's ass enough after the SOTU. I'm no political animal, far from it, but I have never seen a party circle the wagons harder and defend Trump with so much rabid determination as Republicans have. Overcoming a dreadful mentality like that will be hard as hell to beat, but Democrats had damn well better pull out all the stops, because another four years of Dolt45 will be intolerable for this country.

[ZombieHavoc]

I don't think you'll get the same narrative of someone stealing a nomination though. The winner will actually have to fight for it, probably through a long season.

That is true....but look at the past 2 million pages of this thread, and Twitter and under various candidates or articles about candidates on FB. People are willing to let quibbles over bullshit dissolve a unified left to get Trump voted out.

But I agree that Warren would be a good compromise.

[numberthirty]

and they put us here

and I will never let them forget it

See, right there is where your argument pukes and then face plants.

If the argument was "Sanders Cannot Be The Nominee Because He Doesn't Have Any Support In The South.", fine.

Once that argument turns into Clinton losing all of those states that Democrats couldn't risk in Sanders' hands(never mind losing Wisconsin and Michigan)?

You need to accept that it wasn't really Sanders supporters who put you there.

[ZombieHavoc]

You need to accept that it wasn't really Sanders supporters who put you there.

My personal opinion is that it was people who abstained from voting that put us here.

[ZombieHavoc]

Also, has the poster for the new Purge prequel been posted in here yet?

[Iron Maiden]

There's video of Ryan not standing during Obama's. Cruz and everyone else needs to stop being crybabies.

Yeah, they're not exactly perfect examples of honoring the office themselves.

I didn't watch the address at all and watched TCM instead. They had King Kong on last night so I chose the giant ape over the orangutan in the White House. Bill Maher famously got sued by the Donald some years back over a joke about Trump's father being an orangutan. It started back when Trump in full on birther mode said he would pay Obama 5 million dollars if he released all his personal documents, which is pretty rich when you consider Trump to this day hasn't released any of his tax returns. Bill Maher joked that he would pay Trump $5 million dollars if he could prove his father wasn't an orangutan. Trump actually tried to collect on that and sued but later his lawyer Michael Cohen had the suit withdrawn.

I'm at the point where I can't stand to watch Trump give a speech. During his pauses, he has this annoying habit of looking around at the audience with his chin stuck up in the air. It reminded me of something but couldn't pin it down. Then last night Rob Reiner was on the MSNBC roundup afterwards with Chris Matthews and he said that Trump was acting like a wrestler and was still doing WWF appearances. I also saw this morning that he clapped for himself throughout the speech and it's all over Twitter how annoying it was since the nearby mike amplified the sound. Glad I didn't watch that now. In a big headline, The New York Daily News called the State of the Union "What a Load of Crap" and slammed the speech.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

My personal opinion is that it was people who abstained from voting that put us here.

-If Obama voters all came out the way they did for Obama she would have won.
-if black voters all came out for Hillary the way they did for Obama she would have won
-if hispanic voters all came out for Hillary the way everyone thought after Trump started his anti immigration crap, she would have won.
-if white women in general gave a crap about Hillary being the first women President, she would have easily won.
-etc etc etc

A lot of people didn't do enough for Hillary to win. Add to that the fact that Trump catered to his base and overperformed everywhere he wasn't expected to.

It's a mix of things. Blaming any one group is stupid.

[ZombieHavoc]

-If Obama voters all came out the way they did for Obama she would have won.
-if black voters all came out for Hillary the way they did for Obama she would have won
-if hispanic voters all came out for Hillary the way everyone thought after Trump started his anti immigration crap, she would have won.
-if white women in general gave a crap about Hillary being the first women President, she would have easily won.
-etc etc etc

A lot of people didn't do enough for Hillary to win. Add to that the fact that Trump catered to his base and overperformed everywhere he wasn't expected to.

It's a mix of things. Blaming any one group is stupid.

A whole lot of those groups can be rolled into "people who abstained from voting". Of course, the other part of all those groups would be those who defected to Trump. And I don't really care about what made someone vote for Trump. We aren't winning them back if they could listen to what he said for 2 years and think he was the right person for the job.

But again, Trump will be president in 2020, so who really cares, right....

[numberthirty]

My personal opinion is that it was people who abstained from voting that put us here.

Sure.

- Was it that folks like Joy Reid didn't believe kids wouldn't vote Clinton until she actually saw it happen? Nope.
- Was it that folks like Joy Reid who couldn't even conceive of the possibility that Wisconsin could be lost until it happened? Nope.

Must have been folks who decided not to vote.