All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!

[Tendrin]

Of course not.

But that still leaves it possible to select different terms. Some terms drop out of use over time because people find them unacceptable..that’s happened to many racist terms.

“White privilege” (I suspect) alienates many decent working class white people , irritates and annoys them...I don’t think it helps.

No. It 'alienates' people who don't want to think about their unearned boons. There's nothing more frightening to someone than the realization that they don't deserve what they have and a lot of people turn away from it, quickly. The other side of the coin is that white people who are suffering, when you say 'white privelege', turn around and say 'But I don't have that! I'm poor as ****!" without understanding what it really means. That's why it needs to be talked about. Solely discussing how anti-blackness effects blacks won't solve the real issues of inequalities, because it allows people to obscure the reality of what's going on. I mean, ultimately, if we allow our discourse and what words are allowed to be used based on the fragility of the people most invested in that power structure, we're never actually going to be able to come close to resolving it.

It's interesting that it's just another point where the fragility is exposed: when many white people are exposed to even a tiny fragment of what's thrown at minorities in this country, well, their feelings have to be /protected/, but they're the first to start shouting about 'the bell curve', or 'black on black crime stats', or what have you.

I think a lot of us, deep down, know what the inequalities are, know what their roots are, and we'd just rather not think about it. It's easier to blame the victim instead, or tone police them, or find any reason we can not to confront what must be confronted for this country to move in a better, more just direction. Right now, we're nowhere close, as the current government in power indicates. Instead, a lot of people would rather retreat into fantasy.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

GOP Lawmaker Devin Nunes Reportedly Made His Own Fake News Website

“News, sports and analysis” website is paid for by the Nunes campaign. From the Republican memo debacle to this, Devin Numbnuts has been on a roll.

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White House Officials Can’t Say Who Knew What, When On Porter Allegations

Chief of Staff John Kelly and counsel Don McGahn are facing criticism for not dealing with abuse allegations earlier. Can't? Or won't? There's a YUGE difference. Meanwhile....

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Conway Defends Trump Response To Abuse Allegations Against Ex-Aide

The president, she says, believes “you have to consider all sides.” If that's the case, then why no words of sympathy towards the victims? This is Trump's hamfisted Charlottesville response all over again.

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This Grade School Teacher Was Fired Days After Marrying Her Wife

Officials say Jocelyn Morffi’s dismissal was “difficult” but “necessary.” Yeah, necessary to maintain that all important air of homophobia. Disgusting!

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South Korea To Help Reunite More Families Divided By Korean War

The arrangements are in hopes of easing military tensions and taking steps toward a rare summit between the two countries. I find this highly encouraging.

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[JackDaw]

No. It 'alienates' people who don't want to think about their unearned boons. There's nothing more frightening to someone than the realization that they don't deserve what they have and a lot of people turn away from it, quickly. The other side of the coin is that white people who are suffering, when you say 'white privelege', turn around and say 'But I don't have that! I'm poor as ****!" without understanding what it really means. That's why it needs to be talked about. Solely discussing how anti-blackness effects blacks won't solve the real issues of inequalities, because it allows people to obscure the reality of what's going on. I mean, ultimately, if we allow our discourse and what words are allowed to be used based on the fragility of the people most invested in that power structure, we're never actually going to be able to come close to resolving it.

It's interesting that it's just another point where the fragility is exposed: when many white people are exposed to even a tiny fragment of what's thrown at minorities in this country, well, their feelings have to be /protected/, but they're the first to start shouting about 'the bell curve', or 'black on black crime stats', or what have you.

I think a lot of us, deep down, know what the inequalities are, know what their roots are, and we'd just rather not think about it. It's easier to blame the victim instead, or tone police them, or find any reason we can not to confront what must be confronted for this country to move in a better, more just direction. Right now, we're nowhere close, as the current government in power indicates. Instead, a lot of people would rather retreat into fantasy.

What are these “unearned boons”? People often quote stuff like being treated with appropriate courtesy by a police officer when being pulled over for a minor motoring offence as an example of “white privilege”. That’s not an “unearnt boon”..it’s something every citizen of any creed or colour has a right to expect.

You have to remember I look at these things from a viewpoint forged in U.K. union politics. In U.K. enormous progress on many social issues in 20th century was down to union movement forging bonds of solidarity among working class people regardless of colour or religion.

I look at any term that splits people purely on colour with profound suspicion. In general I don’t think they help improve things. If you really think “white privilege” is an exception to that, I respect your opinion...while disagreeing with it in this particular case.

[Tendrin]

What are these “unearned boons”? People often quote stuff like being treated with appropriate courtesy by a police officer when being pulled over for a minor motoring offence as an example of “white privilege”. That’s not an “unearnt boon”..it’s something every citizen of any creed or colour has a right to expect.

You have to remember I look at these things from a viewpoint forged in U.K. union politics. In U.K. enormous progress on many social issues in 20th century was down to union movement forging bonds of solidarity among working class people regardless of colour or religion.

I look at any term that splits people purely on colour with profound suspicion. In general I don’t think they help improve things. If you really think “white privilege” is an exception to that, I respect your opinion...while disagreeing with it in this particular case.

Oh dear god. You really don't understand the concept of 'driving while black'.

[JackDaw]

Oh dear god. You really don't understand the concept of 'driving while black'.

Come on...of course I do. Patently some (too many...one would be too many) American police officers treat black people in a completely unacceptable way.

I just don't believe that being treated with courtesy by a police office is an "unearnt White privilege"...it is every citizens right.

[Tendrin]

Come on...of course I do. Patently some (too many...one would be too many) American police officers treat black people in a completely unacceptable way.

I just don't believe that being treated with courtesy by a police office is an "unearnt White privilege"...it is every citizens right.

*rubs face* No. You don't. You're unable to make the connection between white privilege and driving while black. As for unearned boons, we're talking about wider things, like inherited wealth. The median wealth of the average black family will soon be 0. This is a a result of things like redlining and deliberate policies that have harmed African Americans for decades. The average white family never has had to deal with this, or the millions of mild aggressions that go with the expectations. White privilege is when Brock Turner gets called the 'Stanford Swimmer' and gets a slap on the wrist because it'd 'ruin his future' for rape and a sixteen year old black kid gets 25 to life and is later exonerated by DNA. :P

White privilege is in the millions of cumulative /minor ways/ the system is set up to benefit whites above all else and that way that system treats whites, and the things /they don't have to deal with/ on account of it. Driving without being pulled over because you 'fit the profile' is, indeed, an example of white privilege. I just don't have to deal with the hassles people who can't pass the brown paper bag test do. It's being able to make mistakes a kid and not get thrown in jail or shot dead for holding a BB gun in a toy store. You can say 'But that's not white privilege! That's racism towards blacks!' all you want but you're missing the point of what white privilege actually is when you do.

[JackDaw]

*rubs face* No. You don't. You're unable to make the connection between white privilege and driving while black. As for unearned boons, we're talking about wider things, like inherited wealth. The median wealth of the average black family will soon be 0. This is a a result of things like redlining and deliberate policies that have harmed African Americans for decades. The average white family never has had to deal with this, or the millions of mild aggressions that go with the expectations. White privilege is when Brock Turner gets called the 'Stanford Swimmer' and gets a slap on the wrist because it'd 'ruin his future' for rape and a sixteen year old black kid gets 25 to life and is later exonerated by DNA. :P

White privilege is the millions of cumulative /minor ways/ the system is set up to benefit whites above all else, and the things /they don't have to deal with/ on account of it. Driving without being pulled over because you 'fit the profile' is, indeed, an example of white privilege. I just don't have to deal with the hassles people who can't pass the brown paper bag test do. It's being able to make mistakes a kid and not get thrown in jail or shot dead for holding a BB gun in a toy store. You can say 'But that's not white privilege! That's racism towards blacks!' all you want but you're missing the point of what white privilege actually is when you do.

Come on..this is just daft. I understand what the term "White Privilege" means....I just think on balance it causes more trouble than it's worth.

There are a load of terms that two of us both fully understand but would never use.

For me "WP" is borderline...I was brooding as I plodded up to doctors what term I'd personally prefer to replace it with. And have to admit the one thing the term has going for it is that it's hard to think of a more snazzy positive alternative. (e.g. "Institutional privilege"...doesn't really cut it for me..although it does have potential advantage of covering those many parts of the world where the most privileged section of society is not predominantly white.)

[Tendrin]

Come on..this is just daft. I understand what the term "White Privilege" means....I just think on balance it causes more trouble than it's worth.

There are a load of terms that two of us both fully understand but would never use.

For me "WP" is borderline...I was brooding as I plodded up to doctors what term I'd personally prefer to replace it with. And have to admit the one thing the term has going for it is that it's hard to think of a more snazzy positive alternative. (e.g. "Institutional privilege"...doesn't really cut it for me..although it does have potential advantage of covering those many parts of the world where the most privileged section of society is not predominantly white.)

You asked what the 'unearned boons' are. Forgive me for assuming you were asking in good faith. More importantly, I don't give a crap what 'irritates' white people when discussing these things. Irritating white people isn't what gave us Trump.

[aja_christopher]

It’s probably better to just call it anti black bias or something that shows how it negatively effects blacks as opposed to how it positively effects whites. Because I can tell you the term just causes more problems than it solves. Right or wrong many whites who aren’t in a good position in life just get offended at the idea that they somehow have it easier. At this point, it just creates divisions and doesn’t have much of a positive impact.

Except racism and discrimination doesn't only affect "black" people: it affects Latinos, Muslims, Arabs, Indians, Jews, Asians, and nearly every other "non-white race" as well in various degrees. It could be argued that racism against black people is the most obvious symptom of this bias, but other "non-white" individuals often face ethnically-based discrimination as well -- examples of this is how Arpaio singled out Hispanic drivers for racial profiling or how Arabs are often viewed as "terrorists" despite the fact that only a minuscule percentage of Muslims actually engage in "terrorist" behavior.

Meanwhile, "white" people rarely have to deal with such assumptions -- even when they are responsible for quite a few "terrorist" acts in this country.

The fact that you can even try to limit it to "blacks" just shows that the concept of "white privilege" isn't even fully understood by many of it's critics -- which is why I reiterate that it's kind of useless to have a discussion about something when there isn't a full understanding of the subject at hand.

I think you might be arguing against points I haven't made.

I am aware that the official definition of white privilege is things that would apply regardless of social, political, or economic circumstances. I don't need to learn more about the definition.

If that's the case, then maybe you should stop claiming that said "white privilege" is an "economic issue" or making similarly incorrect arguments in defense of "white voters" -- even if your claim is only that certain "white people" see it as such, there's still no point in basing said arguments on untruths.

To be blunt -- it's not up to non-whites to not "offend" white people when speaking the truth about racism: in fact, it's a lot more offensive that so many people (like yourself) are so dismissive of it's effects on our society just because they don't have to deal with it directly, and often benefit from it.

It would be one thing if Trump hadn't been elected to office -- but pretending that racism against non-whites isn't a serious issue in America when the President of the United States made his way to the top of the Republican party by making racist statements (and taking racist actions) against Arab-Americans, African-Americans, and Mexicans and Mexican-Americans is just ridiculous.

I completely understand not liking the term "white privilege" but that doesn't mean the topic itself is invalid.

[Tendrin]

Except racism and discrimination doesn't only affect "black" people: it affects Latinos, Muslims, Arabs, Indians, Jews, Asians, and nearly every other "non-white race" as well in various degrees. It could be argued that racism against black people is the most obvious symptom of this bias, but other "non-white" individuals often face ethnically-based discrimination as well -- examples of this is how Arpaio singled out Hispanic drivers for racial profiling or how Arabs are often viewed as "terrorists" despite the fact that only a minuscule percentage of Muslims actually engage in "terrorist" behavior.

Meanwhile, "white" people rarely have to deal with such assumptions -- even when they are responsible for quite a few "terrorist" acts in this country.

The fact that you can even try to limit it to "blacks" just shows that the concept of "white privilege" isn't even fully understood by many of it's critics -- which is why I reiterate that it's kind of useless to have a discussion about something when there isn't a full understanding of the subject at hand.

As always, Aja, you're pretty damn amazing.

[Tendrin]

As always, /some/ people want us to be more concerned about the feelings of 'decent' white people who might get their undies in a wad over a phrase than the actual impact of white privilege.

[aja_christopher]

As always, Aja, you're pretty damn amazing.

Thanks for that -- glad to know that this isn't a complete waste of time for me.

You have to remember I look at these things from a viewpoint forged in U.K. union politics. In U.K. enormous progress on many social issues in 20th century was down to union movement forging bonds of solidarity among working class people regardless of colour or religion.

I lived in the UK for a while -- the dynamic is completely different there, so you can't really compare it to America.

I remember having a conversation with my (white) English friends about how they referred to "Pakis" -- granted, it was offensive, but it was no where near the level or racial hatred you'll find in America in places like the South, or amongst American police officers and in the rest of our judicial system.

America is the kind of country where a police officer can say these kinds of things on tape with impunity, and still continue to work as a police officer.

[JackDaw]

More importantly, I don't give a crap what 'irritates' white people when discussing these things.

Yes, that come over very clearly. Well done!

[Tendrin]

Yes, that come over very clearly. Well done!

Forgive me for being more concerned about people who're dying as a result of white America's unwillingness to examine itself.

[aja_christopher]

Forgive me for being more concerned about people who're dying as a result of white America's unwillingness to examine itself.

Not just "dying" but also living with the inequality that has been part of this nation's fabric since it's very foundation -- even now when the issue is brought up, deflection is often the very first response.

Kneeling in protest against racial injustice is considered "disrespecting the flag and military" by many, while marching against police brutality is labeled as "hating cops and white people" -- it's much easier for those who don't believe in "white privilege" to complain about being "offended" that than to examine the problems that created these issues in the first place.