1. #90811
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tami View Post
    I said something like this before, it won't be long before the only one in the White House will be Trump.

    The talk of security clearances lately has made me wonder, should a person be President if they can't get a Security Clearance? If they can't pass the FBI background check? Why not make that a qualification of everyoen runniong for the office. The FBI shoudl start checking their backgroudns as soon as they start campaigining. If they fail, then they can't be qualified for the job.
    You'd need some incredibly tight checks on FBI to entrust them with that responsibility.

    I suppose you could work up some variant of it?

    Maybe let FBI do standard investigations of the candidates..publish the results so they can be challenged openly...and then let electorate decide? (At some point electorate has to be trusted.)

    Really don't know...it's hard to deny there's some merit in idea, but it does feel inherently risky.

  2. #90812
    Ultimate Member Malvolio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    Er..actually..it’s not..those are two examples of direct discrimation against non white people, without any unearnt benefit to the white majority...if the discrimination against others had not taken place the white person would be completely unaffected.

    “White privilege” used in correct technical sense refers to cases where white people benefit indirectly from the discrimination against other races. An example, might be a person benefitting from better schools in predominantly white area where s/he lives...because spending less in schools in other areas has left more in budget to spend on the “white” schools.
    Just because the phrase "white privilege" makes you think of white people directly benefiting from it in some way, that doesn't mean that that's what the phrase means. And not having to worry about things that others do worry about, gives you more time to think about stuff you really want to think about. I'd call that a benefit.

  3. #90813
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malvolio View Post
    Just because the phrase "white privilege" makes you think of white people directly benefiting from it in some way, that doesn't mean that that's what the phrase means. And not having to worry about things that others do worry about, gives you more time to think about stuff you really want to think about. I'd call that a benefit.
    But not a benefit that flows from the racism itself. If racism didn’t exist the normal white guy would still have exactly the same peace of mind...indeed it would be enhanced because he would know that the same right was enjoyed by all. I suppose on a pure academic definition of “white privilege”...many would define it as you. Others would argue it’s a right denied to others..not a privilege at all.

    “White privilege” more insidiously includes situations where non racist white guys actually benefit from racism. Imagine a completely non racist white guy goes for an interview for a job...and gets it. Totally unbeknown to him a better qualified black guy may have been turned away. The non racist white has then benefitted from racism...that for me is the most dispiriting aspect of “white privilege”.

    It’s incredibly hard to avoid..unlike the more blatant outright acts of racism. Even the guy doing the interview may not have a conscious bias.

    Incredibly hard to avoid. Put it this way...if you’re a middle class white guy in many jobs the racial profile of your employers workforce will probably be very different from that of your overall community. But almost nobody is going to resign from their job because of that.
    Last edited by JackDaw; 02-13-2018 at 01:40 AM.

  4. #90814
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Well, yeah. There's nothing more disquieting than the realization that you might have unintentionally benefitted from something you don't like. So, naturally, a lot of people will dispute it because it's a blow to their own sense of self, their own self image. That's whabt makes talking about white privilege so difficult.

    But the reality is that a lot of white people have benefitted from the systemic bias towards whiteness whether they like it or not and while white privilege doesn't mean your life is free from challenge or easy, it is a leg up whether you want it to be or not.

    I get it. A lot of people see the phrase and DON'T feel it just because of the challenges in their life but it's just not how it works.

    And merely rephrasing it to 'anti-blackness' or mere racism without talking about how whites benefit from the current system will prevent us from fixing it in the long run because it keeps the focus squarely on individual behavior without looking at the way the whole system is set up, or why a white majority votes for people who will enforce white hegemony on their behalf.
    Last edited by Tendrin; 02-13-2018 at 01:46 AM.

  5. #90815
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Well, yeah. There's nothing more disquieting than the realization that you might have unintentionally benefitted from something you don't like. So, naturally, a lot of people will dispute it because it's a blow to their own sense of self, their own self image. That's whabt makes talking about white privilege so difficult.

    But the reality is that a lot of white people have benefitted from the systemic bias towards whiteness whether they like it or not and while white privilege doesn't mean your life is free from challenge or easy, it is a leg up whether you want it to be or not.

    I get it. A lot of people see the phrase and DON'T feel it just because of the challenges in their life but it's just not how it works.

    And merely rephrasing it to 'anti-blackness' or mere racism without talking about how whites benefit from the current system will prevent us from fixing it in the long run because it keeps the focus squarely on individual behavior without looking at the way the whole system is set up, or why a white majority votes for people who will enforce white hegemony on their behalf.
    I’ve actually spent last half hour or so reading some of the academic stuff on “white privilege” and reflecting on it. In essence I think you and Malvolio were effectively in the right on the topic, rather than I. Apologies, guys...and thanks for making me think about it.

  6. #90816
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    I’ve actually spent last half hour or so reading some of the academic stuff on “white privilege” and reflecting on it. In essence I think you and Malvolio were effectively in the right on the topic, rather than I. Apologies, guys...and thanks for making me think about it.
    That's good to hear, dude. Appreciate it.

  7. #90817
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Keystone pipeline leaks more than predicted in risk assessments.

    5K barrels have already leaked, about 4K more than the original risk assesment.

    We got a real winner here folks and it's getting worse.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  8. #90818
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    That's good to hear, dude. Appreciate it.
    Always good to “clear the decks” for the next argument!

  9. #90819
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Trump Used Twitter To Defend Alleged Abusers, But Not To Congratulate U.S. Medal Winners

    As Team USA racks up wins, the president has been unusually silent. Well, Dolt45 has to focus on important stuff you know, like defending his repugnant buddies. Meanwhile....

    **********

    In Rob Porter Case, Trump Sends A Message: We Will Protect Powerful Alleged Abusers

    “Trump has turned the clock back on the progress we’ve made in this country.” When you've got a known serial abuser as president, what did anyone expect?

    **********

    What You Should Know About Trump’s Nihilist Budget

    He just doesn’t care. No ****! Is anyone surprised by his attitude towards poor and struggling Americans who figures to get hit the hardest by this cruel budget?

    **********

    Edward Snowden Boasts That He Got Security Clearance Faster Than ‘Half Of This White House’

    So, what’s up with Jared Kushner? Your guess is as good as mine. Talk about a total four alarm shitshow, the Trump White House is an absolute circus.

    **********

    The NRA Really Wants You To Stop Making Fun Of Trump Now, OK?

    Bonkers new spot features an angry dude smashing his TV. And right wingers have the nerve to call us liberals "snowflakes" after THAT sorry performance? Give me a break!
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  10. #90820
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    **********

    The NRA Really Wants You To Stop Making Fun Of Trump Now, OK?

    Bonkers new spot features an angry dude smashing his TV. And right wingers have the nerve to call us liberals "snowflakes" after THAT sorry performance? Give me a break!
    I'm gonna have to call bull here.

    The level of emotional maturity that fellow displayed in that spot has me rethinking my whole take on Second Amendment issues in The United States Of America.

  11. #90821
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    I'm gonna have to call bull here.

    The level of emotional maturity that fellow displayed in that spot has me rethinking my whole take on Second Amendment issues in The United States Of America.
    I have no problem with the Second Amendment, but the fact a chowderhead like that guy owns a gun (and probably more than one I'm guessing) gives me serious pause over any impulse control issues he has.
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  12. #90822
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WestPhillyPunisher View Post
    I have no problem with the Second Amendment, but the fact a chowderhead like that guy owns a gun (and probably more than one I'm guessing) gives me serious pause over any impulse control issues he has.
    Well, that's "If" he's not just some actor taking a gig.

    That said, that commercial was just "How many wrong-headed ideas can we cram into the time we have?". Lots of "Let's not think twice about this.", and not much "Does that I agree on "W" mean I have to go to bat for the guy on "X"/"Y"/"Z"?"

    Obviously could be that the group doesn't really line up with what the average member believes.

  13. #90823
    Old school comic book fan WestPhillyPunisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Well, that's "If" he's not just some actor taking a gig.

    That said, that commercial was just "How many wrong-headed ideas can we cram into the time we have?". Lots of "Let's not think twice about this.", and not much "Does that I agree on "W" mean I have to go to bat for the guy on "X"/"Y"/"Z"?"

    Obviously could be that the group doesn't really line up with what the average member believes.
    Well, I've heard that most NRA members are rational, levelheaded people, hell, a goodly portion of them even support some gun control measures. It's the lunatic fringe as displayed by the nutbag in that video (I'll admit it hadn't occurred to me that guy might've been an actor) that's driving the train and giving the country the impression the NRA are nothing more than an army of foam at the mouth, bay at the moon, pry my gun from my cold dead hands psychopaths.
    Avatar: Here's to the late, great Steve Dillon. Best. Punisher. Artist. EVER!

  14. #90824
    Genesis of A Nemesis KOSLOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    The argument against that is that the areas that those better schools are in tend to be more white. What ends up happening is as an area gets more diverse, the wealthier white people move further and further into suburbs and those places get the better funding. It's all intertwined with a slanted economic system. You have to think of it in the total.
    Or in places like Naperville they build new schools and redraw the district to specifically exclude the growing non-white population.
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  15. #90825
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    the Idiot is planning a "rally" in Pennsylvania ahead of the upcoming special election there

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