All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!

[7thangel]

No, they haven't.

really? so why were we subjected to them asking for his birth certificate? or taking the death panels seriously?

[Paradox]

7thangel goes with how it's supposed to go:

how does it effect policy? the push to have creationism and intelligent design taught in the schools around the country, coupled with the attempt by some to still stop evolution being taught. the setting of educational standards and what gets put in the schoolbooks, is set by local and state politicians and elected schoolboard members.

That's vaguely true, although in actuality, the overwhelmingly main supplier of textbooks comes out of Texas and effectively they end up deciding for the whole country.

[Paradox]

Mark didn't hear?:

If I don't buy health insurance I have to pay a fine. The only difference between that and a tax is the name.

It may be labeled that way, but the Supreme Court came right out and said it's a tax, therefore it's a tax.

[Nick Soapdish]

It may be labeled that way, but the Supreme Court came right out and said it's a tax, therefore it's a tax.

Which is exactly what Mike had called it.

I gotta admit that I'm more than a little baffled that the label of fascism gets used simply when someone proposes a tax. That kind of hyperbole sounds a bit like the lunatic fringe of the right to me.

[7thangel]

Which is exactly what Mike had called it.

I gotta admit that I'm more than a little baffled that the label of fascism gets used simply when someone proposes a tax. That kind of hyperbole sounds a bit like the lunatic fringe of the right to me.

maybe back in the 80's or 90's, but that line is common now

[lancerman]

The difference is no one takes MSNBC the slightest bit seriously. Nobody runs around saying MSNBC's weak ass coverage is gospel. MILLIONS of people take Fox News as gospel, despite the fact that they've been caught at their little games time and time again.

You'd be surprised. There are hardcore liberals that take MSNBC very seriously and there are obviously hardcore conservatives that take Fox News seriously.

Then there are smart people that realize that both stations are overly sensationalized media designed to build camaraderie around certain political views to gain ratings. Fox News just happens to be a lot better at it.

If you really want an informed opinion watch CNN, MSNBC, FOX, ABC, NBC, CBS, BBC. Then go on the internet and read Politico, Huffpost, etc. Then make up your own mind. Don't trust one source ever. Everybody has an angle.

[Mikekerr3]

If I don't buy health insurance I have to pay a fine. The only difference between that and a tax is the name. We've never met, you know me only through these postings, but your assumption is that I don't know how to look after myself, how to plan in case of illness, that I don't pay my debts. That without the government forcing me to I don't know how to take care of myself. I've never in my life failed to meet a bill, be it hospital or otherwise. I can take care of myself and I don't need liberal fascist telling me that I have to buy something.

You pay taxes not a fine, if you disagree with the mak jority of the SC, you are free to do so but it is pointless as hell. I made no assumptions about whether you take care of yourself or not, I just stated that if you don't buy insurance you will have a higher tax bill. and if something goes majorly wrong you will cost your fellow tax payers a lot of money if you don't have insurance.

My well insured wife hospital bill just from last year would have run over 800,000 dollars, this year they will be down to around a 100,000 thankfully Are you prepared to pay a bill like that? With normal interest that would take 20 years of 4900$ a month to pay off.

[Mikekerr3]

Do you have any evidence that democrats are much more trusted by the public?

Besides that fact that there are many more registered Democrats than Republicans? You can look on the conservative blogs Real Clear Poltics and get all the evidence you need.

What dom you mean by it's part of the [party platform exactly? To what extent?

A wish to make a constional ammendment to ban gay marriage is a plank in the national party platform. State republican parties have advocated to overriding Laurence v> texas as have promenent Republican politicians. All the Republica canidates for president last time were infavor of a ban on gay people having equal rights, every single one of them.



Or certain people have scientific blindspots, it happens it does not affect how they govern.

Kerr:

That is up to the voters who don't care about minor stuff like this.[/QUOTE]

[Mikekerr3]

No, I mean his policies. From healthcare to national defense to the economy, how he went about all of those and his ultimate goals were what a lot of people opposed and still do. You can go to the fringe all you want, but there were people with real disagreements and they were just lumped in with the fringe and ignored for the most part. To oppose President Obama in any way meant that you were branded a radical part of the fringe and attacked or ignored on that basis.

WEhiotout either misrepsting known facts tel me what part of his plans you objkect to:

His Defense planning is currently limited by the sequester, and not very different form thre Republican plans.

His Health care plan was deveople by the very Republican and very conservative Heritage foundation, and were first implemented by A Republican Governor

And what ultimate goals to does he have that you object to, and how did yu find out what his ultimate goals are?

[Charles RB]

but the Sunni Arabs could scoop out a large part of Syria and leave the ethnic minorities on the coast to themselves.

Have ISIS shown they're happy to leave areas to non-Sunnis (and Sunnis who don't want to be in their caliphate) or do they seize land & kill people? You're never going to get away from this fact: establishing their caliphate means if you're not the "right" faith, you're getting booted out or killed, and the whole point of the caliphate idea is to expand it to include as many True Muslims as possible.

The thing is, those ethnically homogeneous nations are only considered so because they enjoyed long periods of relative stability, allowing for the development of a shared communal identity and facilitating intermarriage which blurred ethnic divisions over time.

Not to mention that almost every damn one of those Western states has been quite capable of finding religious, geographic, class, political parties, or ancient creaking we-used-to-be-X reasons to clash with each other and, in some cases, kill each other. (We're also assuming that map is accurate) And the people in those countries, do they all want to break up over ethnic lines?

[Mark]

It may be labeled that way, but the Supreme Court came right out and said it's a tax, therefore it's a tax.

The supreme court called it a tax, the administration called it an individual mandate. Either way it is the government saying that I have to buy something, that if I just stay home and not buy something I am breaking the law. Think of that, just by not doing anything I'm breaking the law. To me that's fascism.

[Mark]

You pay taxes not a fine, if you disagree with the mak jority of the SC, you are free to do so but it is pointless as hell. I made no assumptions about whether you take care of yourself or not, I just stated that if you don't buy insurance you will have a higher tax bill. and if something goes majorly wrong you will cost your fellow tax payers a lot of money if you don't have insurance.

My well insured wife hospital bill just from last year would have run over 800,000 dollars, this year they will be down to around a 100,000 thankfully Are you prepared to pay a bill like that? With normal interest that would take 20 years of 4900$ a month to pay off.

Or I could just not have insurance at all, which is how I spent my first 45 years on the planet and was quite happy. I could be left alone to look after myself.

[Mark]

You'd be surprised. There are hardcore liberals that take MSNBC very seriously and there are obviously hardcore conservatives that take Fox News seriously.

Then there are smart people that realize that both stations are overly sensationalized media designed to build camaraderie around certain political views to gain ratings. Fox News just happens to be a lot better at it.

If you really want an informed opinion watch CNN, MSNBC, FOX, ABC, NBC, CBS, BBC. Then go on the internet and read Politico, Huffpost, etc. Then make up your own mind. Don't trust one source ever. Everybody has an angle.

Do I really have five hours extra each day to do all of that? I barely have ten minutes here and there to go online here.

[Mark]

WEhiotout either misrepsting known facts tel me what part of his plans you objkect to:

His Defense planning is currently limited by the sequester, and not very different form thre Republican plans.

His Health care plan was deveople by the very Republican and very conservative Heritage foundation, and were first implemented by A Republican Governor

And what ultimate goals to does he have that you object to, and how did yu find out what his ultimate goals are?

I think his ultimate goal is a socialist state instead of a capitalistic one. As to the other points you bring up I could counter argue each point but you'd just counter-counter argue.

[the4thpip]

I think his ultimate goal is a socialist state instead of a capitalistic one.

And what makes you think that? I mean, isn't Obama too smart (and sane) a guy to have goals that could never, ever be achieved?