All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!

[Jack Dracula]

I find the whole debate spurred by recent events problematic at best, and actually pretty frightening... as well as frighteningly ignorant.

As usual, the agenda of the left debates Constitutional Rights with complete lack of context. It's like their incessant use of the 8th Amendment to protect mass murderers, serial killers, sadists and psychopaths who torture and kill innocent people for kicks from capital punishment. It was instituted by people coming from a country where you could literally be tortured and killed legally for being poor and/or owing money... not to coddle human scum.

The 2nd Amendment was, likewise, not created so people could play around at the range and swagger about like a cowboy in some old western, it was made to allow the citizenry to protect themselves from oppressive government.

But that's the real problem, isn't it? The same people who want to take away guns in times like these are also the same ones who want oppressive government; they want to be the thought police. It's a scary thought. The same people who sit behind computers all day, and so believe all these people they rarely interact with in person, want equality in race, religion, sexual preferences and gender identity... but they want to demonize, ostracize, and often outright criminalize people with different thoughts and ideals who don't follow their usually quite myopic "thought" processes.

After all, even though drunk and distracted driving fatalities actually exceed gun-related deaths (which include accidents and suicides) there's never the same call for prohibition or banning of cell phone usage, usually just some insipid #hashtag campaign. Hell, we can't even get people's driving PRIVILEGES (that's right libs, not everything is a Right) permanently revoked for DUIs or distracted driving, even after they kill someone. But guns to prevent a takeover by ideological fascists? Yes, they need those gone right now.

Because unfortunately, freedom and democracy comes with a fatal flaw: they expect, rely upon, and actually demand both personal responsibility and individual accountability. Also unfortunately, those are 2 concepts the left is incapable of understanding. Everything a given individual does (at least one who doesn't demonstrate a different value system and/or thought process from their hive mind agenda) is the fault of peer groups, parents, upbringing, teachers, the system, the government, big business, society... basically anything BUT the individual.

Take it out of the individuals hands, better to put responsibility into the hands of the government, made up itself of individuals... but held accountable to an unthinking, unreasoning, reactionary mob.

No one is seriously calling for a nationwide gun confiscation or repeal of the second amendment. Sane people understand that such things would be impossible. All the majority of Democrats are looking for is a strengthening of existing laws and a few new laws to make it more difficult for the mentally ill to acquire the weapons they're using in these massacres.
Re-funding the ATF and allowing them to do their jobs efficiently with current technology would be a great help in controlling the problem as well.

[SuperiorIronman]

This gets a bet messy.

If someone is willing to gun down classmates, they were probably messed up well before that happened, which would be reflected in their interactions with others, and a reasons for their unpopularity.

Everyone who guns down their classmates has a screw loose. Point being is that it can begin (what drives them to commit the act) outside the home as well as inside it. Good homes don't always equal stable individual.

[Carabas]

The US government would be aware that serious oppression would come with a lot of blowback.

They can probably sit back and have the armed mob do the oppressing for them.

But once you get into the mood for doing some serious oppressing, you don't really care that much about blowback anymore, which you were probably already getting anyway. any further blowback is just more justification to oppress harder.

[Malvolio]

Ted Cruz has a new quote that is trending after speaking at CPAC:



.........you do realize Lisa is the smartest person in her family, right? I mean, sure, she can be a bit preachy and a wet blanket, but she's genuinely the most likable of the family when you think about it.

Though I do find it funny Maggie is said to be part of the Republican Party after she shot the city's party leader after he tried to steal from her.

Once again, as with Green Eggs and Ham, Ted Cruz completely misses the point of the entertainment he says he loves.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

No one is seriously calling for a nationwide gun confiscation or repeal of the second amendment. Sane people understand that such things would be impossible. All the majority of Democrats are looking for is a strengthening of existing laws and a few new laws to make it more difficult for the mentally ill to acquire the weapons they're using in these massacres.
Re-funding the ATF and allowing them to do their jobs efficiently with current technology would be a great help in controlling the problem as well.

Actually any person whose serious about solving the problem should be looking at a gun control overhaul that includes a confiscation OR a repealing the second amendment.To be honest if you look across the globe any regulation that would have any meaningful impact would be so expansive it would almost certainly infringe on the 2nd Amendment. It works there, it would work here, it's the only thing that would. To coin a phrase, "it's the guns, stupid"

And all regulations typically suggested would have minimal to no effect. People with mental illness are not more likely to commit a gun crime, in fact they are far more likely to be the victim of one. An assault weapons ban would account for 10% to 15% of gun deaths and that takes the massive assumptions that the shooters wouldn't downgrade, which is the most likely scenario. If someone illegally got their gun or stole one from a relative (Sandy Hook) more regulations would have no effect. Bump stocks are almost meaningless and you'd be lucky if it would have prevented a single deal.

Here's the sad fact, most people in the NRA and on the right know far more about guns and they know the only way to put America in line with the rest of the world in gun death rates would be to do what all the other countries have been doing. They also know that virtually anything else is just posturing and would only kind or maybe dent the problem.

Oh and before I get the diatribe of "sane people understand that such things would be impossible", IT'S BEEN DONE BEFORE. Australia. Had a horrible gun culture. Almost as bad as us. Similar country culture as well. Massive gun rates. They made sweeping changes which included a confiscation. You can still get a gun there, but it's an incredibly difficult process. And it worked. It works. It's possible. It's not a matter of being impossible, it's a matter of one side not wanting it and the other side being uninformed, ignorant, or out right too cowardly to go after the only sensible thing.

And I want to make this very clear, the only meaningful change would come with either a confiscation or a repeal. If after the fact you want to put in a restrictive program so people can acquire guns under strict scrutiny, that is possible.

Just to drive the point home.

Gun deaths per 100,000 people

Australia: 0.93 per 100k
Austria: 2.63 per 100k
Belgium: 1.82 per 100k
Canada: 1.97 per 100k
Denmark: 1.28 per 100k
Finland: 3.25 per 100k
France: 2.83 per 100k
Germany: 1.01 per 100k
Greece: 1.52 per 100k
India: 0.28 per 100k
Ireland: 0.80 per 100k
Isreal: 2.09 per 100k
Italy: 1.31 per 100k
Japan: 0.06 per 100k
Netherlands: 0.58 per 100k
New Zealand: 1.07 per 100k
Norway: 1.75 per 100k
Spain: 0.62 per 100k
Sweden: 1.47 per 100k
Switzerland: 3.01 per 100k
Turkey: 1.95 per 100k
United Kingdom: 0.23

The United States: 10.54 per 100k.

You want to make us like those countries, you do what those countries do. Otherwise, you might as well throw up the white flag and say that being the biggest joke of a first world country on the planet as far as gun crimes goes and having our citizens slaughtered is a perfectly acceptable because the 2nd Amendment needs to remain in tact.

And I'm sorry but too big a part of the problem is the massive misinformation and fantasy the left has about almost meaningless solutions that wouldn't have impacted any of these mass shootings, let alone the rest of the gun problems this country has.

[ed2962]

Once again, as with Green Eggs and Ham, Ted Cruz completely misses the point of the entertainment he says he loves.

Ok, exactly who on what planet is calling Maggie a Republican other than Ted?

[thwhtGuardian]

To those talking or implying that I think video games are the problem, that is NOT what I mean. I'm saying that they are symptoms, which is different from being the cause of the problem. It's like when one gets the flu and gets a fever, has body aches and is tired. The fever, body aches and fatigue is not the overarching cause of you feeling bad, but are, indeed, caused by the flu virus. In this case, it is the broken homes and that are the cause, or a significant part of the cause. While there will always be some people that have mental issues not related to family or how they were raised, or people who are just plain bad (just as there are people who will be saints despite everything bad the world has done to them and is trying to do to them), things in general would be a lot better for everyone if there were fewer broken homes and just more respect in general in society. Heck, there may be fewer broken homes if there was more respect and morals in today's society.

Respect is important to teach our children and we can always do better at that, but I don't know if you can really say broken homes and a "decline" in culture are really that big of symptoms in gun crime. It's easy to say, "Look, in the 1950's when most homes were two parent homes and a majority of people went to church every Sunday there were fewer gun deaths than now when two parent homes are on the decline and fewer and fewer people attend church services regularly." but as they say correlation does not prove causation especially in a complex situation like this where there are a lot of variables...the biggest being that in the 50's guns were only .35 per capita and but are now up to 1.1 per capita so with more gun now than back then I think the question becomes, "Were there fewer gun crimes in the 50's when we had more "traditional families" or were there fewer gun crimes because there were fewer guns?" I think the latter is far more logical than the former.

[Jack Dracula]

Actually any person whose serious about solving the problem should be looking at a gun control overhaul that includes a confiscation OR a repealing the second amendment.To be honest if you look across the globe any regulation that would have any meaningful impact would be so expansive it would almost certainly infringe on the 2nd Amendment. It works there, it would work here, it's the only thing that would. To coin a phrase, "it's the guns, stupid"

And all regulations typically suggested would have minimal to no effect. People with mental illness are not more likely to commit a gun crime, in fact they are far more likely to be the victim of one. An assault weapons ban would account for 10% to 15% of gun deaths and that takes the massive assumptions that the shooters wouldn't downgrade, which is the most likely scenario. If someone illegally got their gun or stole one from a relative (Sandy Hook) more regulations would have no effect. Bump stocks are almost meaningless and you'd be lucky if it would have prevented a single deal.

Here's the sad fact, most people in the NRA and on the right know far more about guns and they know the only way to put America in line with the rest of the world in gun death rates would be to do what all the other countries have been doing. They also know that virtually anything else is just posturing and would only kind or maybe dent the problem.

Oh and before I get the diatribe of "sane people understand that such things would be impossible", IT'S BEEN DONE BEFORE. Australia. Had a horrible gun culture. Almost as bad as us. Similar country culture as well. Massive gun rates. They made sweeping changes which included a confiscation. You can still get a gun there, but it's an incredibly difficult process. And it worked. It works. It's possible. It's not a matter of being impossible, it's a matter of one side not wanting it and the other side being uninformed, ignorant, or out right too cowardly to go after the only sensible thing.

And I want to make this very clear, the only meaningful change would come with either a confiscation or a repeal. If after the fact you want to put in a restrictive program so people can acquire guns under strict scrutiny, that is possible.

Just to drive the point home.

Gun deaths per 100,000 people

Australia: 0.93 per 100k
Austria: 2.63 per 100k
Belgium: 1.82 per 100k
Canada: 1.97 per 100k
Denmark: 1.28 per 100k
Finland: 3.25 per 100k
France: 2.83 per 100k
Germany: 1.01 per 100k
Greece: 1.52 per 100k
India: 0.28 per 100k
Ireland: 0.80 per 100k
Isreal: 2.09 per 100k
Italy: 1.31 per 100k
Japan: 0.06 per 100k
Netherlands: 0.58 per 100k
New Zealand: 1.07 per 100k
Norway: 1.75 per 100k
Spain: 0.62 per 100k
Sweden: 1.47 per 100k
Switzerland: 3.01 per 100k
Turkey: 1.95 per 100k
United Kingdom: 0.23

The United States: 10.54 per 100k.

You want to make us like those countries, you do what those countries do. Otherwise, you might as well throw up the white flag and say that being the biggest joke of a first world country on the planet as far as gun crimes goes and having our citizens slaughtered is a perfectly acceptable because the 2nd Amendment needs to remain in tact.

And I'm sorry but too big a part of the problem is the massive misinformation and fantasy the left has about almost meaningless solutions that wouldn't have impacted any of these mass shootings, let alone the rest of the gun problems this country has.

In a perfect world the government would repeal the second amendment and request people turn over their weapons and everyone would happily comply. We both know that that won't happen. There are organized groups who've been preparing for years to respond violently to exactly the situation you're describing. We'll have Waco and Ruby Ridge types of situations every week for years. The situation could worsen from that point. Do we want any more Timothy McVeigh's out there with an axe to grind?

[wjowski]

If we're going to talk about disarming America, we ought to start with the cops if you ask me.

[JCAll]

In a perfect world the government would repeal the second amendment and request people turn over their weapons and everyone would happily comply. We both know that that won't happen. There are organized groups who've been preparing for years to respond violently to exactly the situation you're describing. We'll have Waco and Ruby Ridge types of situations every week for years. The situation could worsen from that point. Do we want any more Timothy McVeigh's out there with an axe to grind?

"Democrats are coming to take the guns" is really just a marketing campaign to sell guns at this point, rather than any argument based in proposed policy. It would take several decades more outrage to ever rile people up enough to seriously consider repealing the second amendment. Maybe if we put off doing anything about school shootings until current school shooting survivors' grandchildren grow up to be school shooting survivors it will gain the traction to actually happen.

[JCAll]

Everyone who guns down their classmates has a screw loose. Point being is that it can begin (what drives them to commit the act) outside the home as well as inside it. Good homes don't always equal stable individual.

I suppose you could say the same about anyone that chooses to commit murder. I'm just not sure how it lines up to actual identifiable and treatable mental illness, or how that would correlate to mass shootings. The CDC should really do some research on that...oh...

[JackDaw]

It would take several decades more outrage to ever rile people up enough to seriously consider repealing the second amendment.

Will it? Why?

The Second Amendment seems to be trumping the very basis of the constitution itself...the fundamental idea that the government's prime responsibility (indeed the only justification for its existence) is to facilitate the individual pursuit of life, liberty and happiness.

[worstblogever]

In 2015, in 2016, and in 2017, “Crazy Stupid Republican of the Day” published profiles of Michele Fiore, a former member of the Nevada House of Representatives and a particularly staunch fan of the 2nd Amendment who in her first year in office alone in 2013, came to the defense of Jim Wheeler for saying he would vote to legalize slavery if he could, bragged about breaking the law by carrying her personal guns through gun free zones, and abrasively swearing at colleagues on the floor of the Nevada State Assembly, saying in less flattering ways that her colleagues were suffering from rectal-cranial inversion, or that they needed to grow sets of brass ovaries or testicles. She also has blamed victims of sexual assault on college campuses because they weren't carrying a gun, themselves, and becoming one of the most vocal defenders of tax scofflaw and domestic terrorist Cliven Bundy during his standoff with the Bureau of Land Management in 2014. And that was just in our first profile of Fiore.

Our second look at Fiore featured a whole new series of moronic adventures, including the time that in spite of being the CEO of a healthcare company, talked about working on a bill regarding "end of life care" for medical patients. She seemed like she had a lack of knowledge about medicine, though, when she talked about how to treat cancer, which she "believes is a fungus", by putting in a pic line to "wash it out" with baking soda (none of which is in any way medically or scientifically accurate). She chimed in during a debate in the Nevada State Assembly about Voter ID, where she said such a measure could no longer be discriminatory because Barack Obama was elected president and referred to one of her African American colleagues in the legislature as "colored". In April 2015, Fiore introduced a bill in support of rancher Cliven Bundy, AB 408, which would require the federal government to obtain permission from county commissioners to use public land in the state. When a colleague voiced his concerns that the bill was patently unconstitutional and a violation of the Supremacy Clause and that she was turning the proceedings into a circus, Fiore blew up, yelling at him, “Can you sit your ass down and be quiet?” In July of 2015, after the Charleston Massacre, Michele Fiore, born in New York, and now a citizen of Nevada decided to speak out in defense of the Confederate flag. In November 2015, she released a pin-up calendar featuring herself posing with assault rifles to try and further normalize them into the American consciousness and but a few weeks later in December 2015 the Fiore family Christmas Card made viral news on Facebook, by featuring ten family members, between them carrying seven guns, including one in the hands of a five year old boy. By the time 2015 was done, on her weekly radio show, Michele Fiore stated her desire to handle Syrian refugees by "flying to Paris and shoot them in the head myself". (Please remember, of course, that the perpetrators of the terrorist attacks in Paris were not, in fact, Syrian refugees, but Muslims from France and Belgium. And thus, Fiore was talking about going to murder innocent people.) In January 2016: Fiore raged on social media about actions taken by Oregon police and the FBI to end the militia (aka domestic terrorist) siege of Malheur Wildlife Refuge. Two of Cliven Bundy's sons, Ryan and Ammon, were present. But Fiore took the time to lie about the death of Lavoy Finicum, who she claimed was "murdered with his hands up". (The video of Finicum's death shows him nearly run over an officer while crashing through a police barricade, and not once, but twice reaching for a firearm that he was carrying in his belt before they opened fire.)

Now, most smart conservatives would try to try and not come off as too extreme while running for office in a presidential year, but Michele Fiore is not most conservatives. In fact, in spite of all the above idiocy she's shown in the headlines, she even has an inflated enough opinion of herself to think that she could successfully run for U.S. Congress to represent Nevada's 3rd Congressional District. She finished third in that GOP Primary with only 18% of the vote, losing to Danny Tarkanian. Fiore has gone on to get herself elected to the Las Vegas City Council, so for the time being, we will set aside her CSGOPOTD profile at this time and go ahead and take a look at a different wacky Republican today instead. (Current crazy/stupid scoreboard, is now 650-25, since this was established in July 2014.)


Kris Jordan
Welcome to the 650th original “Crazy/Stupid Republican of the Day” profile, where today we’ll be discussing Ohio State Senator Kris Jordan, a member of ALEC who was first elected to the Ohio House of Representatives back in 2008, before making the jump to the Ohio State Senate in the 2010 Tea Party Wave. What’s more amazing is that he was re-elected in 2014 when in 2011, dashcam video emerged of police at Jordan’s home investigating a domestic violence incident after he was suspected of attacking his wife, Melissa, and threatening her with a gun. While in the video, Jordan’s wife reports that the abuse had gone on for nearly two years, usually after he was drinking, she declined to press charges. Kris Jordan explained to the cops, however, that the whole thing was his wife’s fault:

”She got a little upset. Girls do that.”

For whatever reason, there was zero political fallout from this, until 2016, after the Jordans divorced, and for a time, a judge ordered the Jordans’ divorce records sealed, an order which another judge had to overturn in 2017.

We’re not just going to point out Jordan’s issues with women as evidenced by his violence towards his wife, but will also note he was the sponsor of several bills in Ohio that seem to indicate a general resentment for them. Like the fact that he was a sponsor of a fetal heartbeat bill in Ohio that would have effectively outlawed abortion at 6 weeks, before many women are even aware they’re actually pregnant. Or the fact that Jordan, shocker of all shockers, was actually the one hold out on an anti-cyberbullying measure in the Ohio State Senate.

That’s only the tip of the iceberg on his voting record:

• October 10th, 2013: Jordan co-sponsors and votes for SB 205, to limit the distribution of absentee ballots, in an attempt to suppress the vote.
• November 13th, 2013: Kris Jordan co-sponsors and votes for SB 238, a bill aimed at cutting the number of days someone can vote via absentee ballot.
• December 9th, 2014: Jordan co-sponsors and votes for HB 234, a bill to legalize silencers on certain firearms.
• June 24th, 2015: Kris Jordan co-sponsors and votes for SB 127, a ban on abortions at 20 weeks.
• January 31st, 2017: Jordan co-sponsors SB 28, a bill to force abortion providers to cremate or bury fetal remains (even though it was never a person in the first place, and this prevents fetal tissue donations).
• June 28th, 2017: Kris Jordan co-sponsors and votes for SB 145, a bill to attempt to outlaw dilation and evacuation abortions (which are protected via the Roe v. Wade ruling).

Now, here’s the question that has to be asked in this day and age… how did Kris Jordan remain in office for seven years after he was exposed as a domestic abuser without having his resignation forced by his colleagues, and the only thing that’s ending his career is term limits? It’s almost as if now’s the time where it’s too much, and like there’s a reason why there’s currently domestic abusers being rousted out of the Trump White House and the GOP across the country now. And maybe the Republican Party’s pattern of loathing towards women in policy shows an even deeper issue… but it’s a travesty that Kris Jordan was allowed to continue his career as a legislator.

[JCAll]

Will it? Why?

The Second Amendment seems to be trumping the very basis of the constitution itself...the fundamental idea that the government's prime responsibility (indeed the only justification for its existence) is to facilitate the individual pursuit of life, liberty and happiness.

I don't disagree with you, and maybe I'm just being a pessimist, but I just can't imagine public support growing any quicker than that.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Cops And Educators Agree: Arming Teachers Is A Terrible Idea

President Trump says more teachers should carry weapons. It’s a proposal that could have disastrous consequences. "Could"? How about WOULD? Why is it most people, save for Dolt45, Republicans and their puppet masters at the NRA can't, or rather, won't see that?

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As The U.S. Looks To Australia For Hope On Guns, Its Laws Are Being Quietly Pulled Back

Fears that Australian lawmakers are becoming “complacent” and allowing gun lobbyists to water down laws. I find that highly troubling.

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The ATF Is Getting Crushed Under The Weight Of The Gun Industry

As American gun sales and manufacturing have exploded, the ATF’s budget and capabilities have remained stagnant. I can't help but wonder if that's intentional.

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U.S. Immigration Agency Changes Mission Statement To Reflect ‘America First’ Agenda

The new statement removes a reference to the U.S. as a “nation of immigrants.” This is flat out repugnant and only reinforces Trump's rampant xenophobia. Meanwhile....

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Trump Invoked In A Fifth Of Hate Crimes Against South Asians, Middle Easterners, Report Says

“[The Trump administration] really operationalizes the divisive portrayal of all of our communities,” said Suman Raghunathan, the executive director of the organization behind the report. To be perfectly honest, I'm surprised it's only one in five. I figured it'd be higher, much higher.

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The GOP Wants To Gut The Americans With Disabilities Act

from author Laura Dorwart:

Nearly 20 percent of the U.S. population is disabled. This means that the ADA — the Americans With Disabilities Act, which was passed in 1990 under President George H.W. Bush’s administration — protects the basic rights of almost 60 million disabled Americans.

My husband ― a quadriplegic wheelchair-user since a spinal cord injury in his 20s, a father to our 6-month-old and a professor at Oberlin College ― has found the ADA to be invaluable to our family’s ability to participate equally in society. In the U.S. House, 213 Republicans and 12 Democrats took a step toward making our everyday lives a lot harder by voting “yes” on H.R. 620 on Feb. 15.

Misleadingly named “The ADA Education and Reform Act of 2017,” H.R. 620 is posited as legislation that would prevent frivolous lawsuits against business by removing incentives to comply with accessibility laws. But in actuality, the new bill could potentially strip away access to a number of Americans living with disabilities.

Much of the support for the measure and its under-the-radar, low fanfare (at least in mainstream media coverage) passage relied on widespread public inattention to and ignorance about the ADA’s significance to disabled populations. Rationalizations for H.R. 620 belie either a fundamental misunderstanding or willful misrepresentation of both the ADA and the bill aiming to gut it.

The evil and heartlessness of the GOP knows no bounds, but then, that's no surprise.