All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!

[mojotastic]

I mean, it's possible that after the investigation that the officer accessed the situation and determined that if he'd rushed in, things would have been worse...who knows? Maybe there was nothing he could have done. I think the bigger point is that so often when these shootings happen, the first thing the NRA says is "Well, if there was a man with a gun on the scene, the tragedy could have been prevented." Well, this time there actually was a man with a gun there and it didn't help.

Oh of course that why i am okay with the investigation being made.

Even then there is a procedure for active shooters/lockdowns generally, which normally is to evacuate first and to not engage the shooter unless it's an absolute last resort unless doing so would preserve more lives.

It seems that the guy failed to act in the moment.

[Tendrin]

What the....

In an awkward onstage appearance this week, Gov. Bruce Rauner drank a glass of chocolate milk to demonstrate his belief in diversity.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...222-story.html

[Mister Mets]

Mets, your responses seem to operate a lot on hope and presumption rather than reality. Again, cops kill unarmed civilians, yet no policy changes but somehow you think that if we give weapons to teachers, policy change. You continually conflate two issues when it comes to gun violence. Because you're more likely to be struck by lightning versus being shot is not a valid argument in that you fail to address what the argument is. Ease of access to the weapons in question leads to great loss of life when it comes to these situations. The fact that one person can walk into a building and end the lives of 17 people with one weapon is one of the reasons for the gun reform debate.

Several points.

With the police, the response to a major policy change (giving teachers access to firearms) would necessitate new training for them. An ongoing problem (shootings of unarmed civilians) isn't going to be comparable, as that isn't due to any new policy. Even taking that into account, it is literally untrue that there are no policy changes to deal with police shootings. There are changes and there's new training for police officers in many regions (I can't speak for every police force in every city or town.) There is definitely room for debate about whether the training is adequate and how it can be improved, although that's a different category from whether it exists.

I should note that I think that it would be a bad idea to increase teacher access to firearms. I was responding to a particular argument.

One new argument I've considered against arming teachers is that New York City went without any school killings from Feb. 24 1993 to September 27 2017. If teachers had access to firearms during those decades, would we trust that no teacher would have unnecessarily opened fire?

I completely get that access to firearms is a major issue, and a part of the gun reform debate. I'm not sure there's any way to realistically lower access to firearms. A further problem is that any hint that a major policy may be discussed will lead to gun nuts buying more guns and ensuring a slight increase in access.

[JBatmanFan05]

The creation of black markets will also weigh on lawmakers' minds. The various costs and dangers of creating those.

EDIT: Boosting them up

[KOSLOX]

Several points.

With the police, the response to a major policy change (giving teachers access to firearms) would necessitate new training for them. An ongoing problem (shootings of unarmed civilians) isn't going to be comparable, as that isn't due to any new policy. Even taking that into account, it is literally untrue that there are no policy changes to deal with police shootings. There are changes and there's new training for police officers in many regions (I can't speak for every police force in every city or town.) There is definitely room for debate about whether the training is adequate and how it can be improved, although that's a different category from whether it exists.

I should note that I think that it would be a bad idea to increase teacher access to firearms. I was responding to a particular argument.

One new argument I've considered against arming teachers is that New York City went without any school killings from Feb. 24 1993 to September 27 2017. If teachers had access to firearms during those decades, would we trust that no teacher would have unnecessarily opened fire?

I completely get that access to firearms is a major issue, and a part of the gun reform debate. I'm not sure there's any way to realistically lower access to firearms. A further problem is that any hint that a major policy may be discussed will lead to gun nuts buying more guns and ensuring a slight increase in access.

Another issue with teachers having firearms is that police will still have to respond to situations as though there is an active threat. You can't just call the police and say, "It's all good now, Mr. Gross got him." Having armed civilians on scene could easily result in a false threat identification and someone who is trying to be a hero becoming an accidental casualty after the inciting event has passed.

[BaneBreaker]

The creation of black markets will also weigh on lawmakers' minds. The various costs and dangers of creating those.

Those already exist.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

The creation of black markets will also weigh on lawmakers' minds. The various costs and dangers of creating those.

A terrorist can get a gun on the black market. A crazy teenager, a gang banger, a suicidal person is far less likely. There already is a black market for guns, guess what country is on the supply side of it?

[BaneBreaker]

Several points.

With the police, the response to a major policy change (giving teachers access to firearms) would necessitate new training for them. An ongoing problem (shootings of unarmed civilians) isn't going to be comparable, as that isn't due to any new policy. Even taking that into account, it is literally untrue that there are no policy changes to deal with police shootings. There are changes and there's new training for police officers in many regions (I can't speak for every police force in every city or town.) There is definitely room for debate about whether the training is adequate and how it can be improved, although that's a different category from whether it exists.

I should note that I think that it would be a bad idea to increase teacher access to firearms. I was responding to a particular argument.

One new argument I've considered against arming teachers is that New York City went without any school killings from Feb. 24 1993 to September 27 2017. If teachers had access to firearms during those decades, would we trust that no teacher would have unnecessarily opened fire?

I completely get that access to firearms is a major issue, and a part of the gun reform debate. I'm not sure there's any way to realistically lower access to firearms. A further problem is that any hint that a major policy may be discussed will lead to gun nuts buying more guns and ensuring a slight increase in access.

You can start by banning access to certain types of weapons.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Those already exist.

Exactly. The rest of the world doesn't have insane gun laws like us. So a black market already exists.

What's more a dangerous, forcing people who want to illegally get guns to go on a black market that is far more difficult to access with strict penalties if you get caught, or the current situation?

[Iron Maiden]

Florida gun law can punish local officials personally

This has to be the handiwork of that old bat Marion Hammer, your friendly neighborhood NRA lobbyist.

The GOP in Florida has basically let the NRA run roughshod over the rights of those who don't want to live in fear of guns.

[Carabas]

The idea is that the knowledge that one in five citizens is armed in a country with low population density would make it less likely that anyone gets in the mood for some serious oppressing.

And somehow it hasn't stopped the US government to be way more oppressive than would be tolerated over here.

[SuperiorIronman]

Why get guns on the black market when they can obtain them from Ghost gun kits?
It's legally available and isn't technically considered a firearm because you have to assemble it yourself.

The black market is redundant because not only can you get the firearm legally, but it isn't a gun until the shooter is ready for their big day. You can watch people all you want but the buyer information is private, the kits can be legally sold, it has no regulations (no serial number at that), and you can get a multitude of weapon types. The California shooter back in 2016 assembled his own rifles like this.

That isn't a secret market that only criminals are accessing, that's out in the open on the front page of Google when you search for it.

[BeastieRunner]

While CPAC is chanting "Lock her up!" well ... it's Mueller time!

Rick Gates to plead guilty, cooperate with Mueller in Russia probe.
Former Trump campaign aide Rick Gates set to plead guilty.

Who's next on his list? Oh, it's just Jared.
Mueller is about to take a big step closer to Trump.
Mueller probe stymies Kushner security clearance.

[TheInvisibleMan]

RE: Emma Gonzalez

I love the fact that the face of all this is a brown girl with a shaved head

nothing scares ignorant people more than a brown person who won't shut up

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Trump calls for arming many teachers, more guards at schools

And this comes after a proclamation from the other day:

Trump: I never said 'give teachers guns'

Well, Donnie? Which is it? Make up what passes for your mind!