All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!

[ed2962]

My money is on "repeat" with the guys shirking responsibility on this thread.

Our only hope lies with the registration of angry young voters, and unprecedented turnout of the just.

Eh...just remember some of those angry youth are out there supporting people like Lauren Southern and Milo Y. They look to Jordan Peterson to save them from the "out of control leftists who have gone too far!"

[PaulBullion]

Eh...just remember some of those angry youth are out there supporting people like Lauren Southern and Milo Y. They look to Jordan Peterson to save them from the "out of control leftists who have gone too far!"

Those guys are usually too high on meth to remember voting.

[Iron Maiden]

Steve Schmidt renounces the Republican Party. He previously worked on campaigns for George W. Bush, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and John McCain.

https://twitter.com/SteveSchmidtSES/...25231004004352

Let's see that's Pulitzer Prize winning conservative columnist George Will, former GOP congressman and TV show host Joe Scarborough, former congressman from Hawaii Charles Djou.....did I miss any of the more prominent ones?

[Tami]

Let's see that's Pulitzer Prize winning conservative columnist George Will, former GOP congressman and TV show host Joe Scarborough, former congressman from Hawaii Charles Djou.....did I miss any of the more prominent ones?

I found this to be interesting: Why did you leave the Republican Party?

[Tendrin]

Eh...just remember some of those angry youth are out there supporting people like Lauren Southern and Milo Y. They look to Jordan Peterson to save them from the "out of control leftists who have gone too far!"

Let's not forget that these people are wildly unpopular with their peers.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

Ivanka's deafening silence

When Ivanka Trump took the stage at the Republican National Convention in 2016 to stump for her father, then-candidate Donald Trump, she presented herself as the champion of women's rights in her father's future presidency.

In front of millions of Americans, she stood up for working women and mothers, arguing for equal wages, better child care and paid family leave. To many commentators, her speech sounded more suited for the Democratic National Convention than the RNC.

Nonetheless, after Trump became President, Ivanka accepted an official role as an adviser to her father. Her portfolio, unsurprisingly, included women's empowerment and rights.

And yet, despite her claims of championing women's causes, Ivanka has largely failed to make progress on any of the issues she said she would spearhead.

Ivanka's pattern of inaction has become most evident in recent days, as she remains alarmingly silent on the Trump administration's zero-tolerance policy, which has resulted in the forcible separation of parents and children at the border.

Her silence is even more stark in comparison to first lady Melania Trump and former first lady Laura Bush, who have both used their respective platforms to advocate for a solution to this deeply horrifying situation. While Melania's spokesperson Stephanie Grisham said she "believes we need to be a country that follows all laws, but also a country that governs with heart," Laura Bush wrote in a Washington Post op-ed that the United States government cannot be in the business of "warehousing children in converted box stores or making plans to place them in tent cities in the desert outside of El Paso."

And yet even her stepmother and a former first lady have not been able to persuade Ivanka to speak out.

In fact, she appears to be pouring salt onto the gaping immigration policy wound, posting photos of her beautiful, intact family to her Instagram account.

But why is Ivanka doing this? It's one thing not to make a comment despite being one of her father's closest advisors, but it's quite another to continuously make these truly insensitive posts.

I honestly do not understand what the reason behind her silence is, nor do I understand why she would want to remain silent. As a mother and as a human being, I want to shout at the very top of my lungs every time I think about those children being taken away from their parents. If that happened to me and my two young daughters, I might not survive the trauma.

Oh, it's quite easy to understand Ms. Complicit's silence if you're a hopeless cynic like me. Like I said in a previous post this morning, Ivanka is unwilling to complain about the administration's heartless "zero tolerance" policy, especially not in a public forum and risk getting cut out of daddy's will because he's too thin-skinned to tolerate any insubordination, not even from his kids. Then there's another, less complicated theory behind Ivanka's silence----she just plain doesn't give a flying fuck about traumatized little brown skinned kids from south of the border.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I don't believe you because I was active in the conversations at the time and 'most' posters weren't saying what you claim. There were a few (#30 for one) but most of us were pleading with anyone who would listen to vote against the person going to work directly against the interests of America aka Trump, and to quote Tim Curry in Clue "I know because I was there." When you refuse to back up claims like any Trump shill on camera it doesn't help your case. FYI It's not stalking to correct bald faced lies any more than it's a witch hunt to investigate a criminal, and if you keep making them on a public forum and refusing to back down or back them up with proof when called out on it you can't complain about being called out on it. It's not like many people agree with your interpretations and I'm a lone dissenter considering the recent reaction to your 'Trump was an Unknown' schtick.

If you make a claim you have to back it up if you want to have any credibility. Rule #1 of any Internet Debate. Anyone who can't or won't back up what they say isn't telling the truth, I learned that before I even made it through grade school.

Well that's a misleading statement because you are conflating two separate issues. I was here lurking prior to the election and joined a couple months as a member post election. So yeah I was here when certain people on here were saying they resented Sanders so much that they wouldn't support him in an election. So trying to take an authoritative position on the basis that "I was here" is incredibly misleading, but does go along with your pattern of self importance. So at least you are consistent.

Oh and it is talking. If you want to say you disagree with or don't believe me, that's fine. That's your right. You're wrong in it and I get to not care about the opinion of someone I know is wrong. But you can do it. At that point it is simply two people disagreeing. But to outright claim it is a lie or deception is an assertive statement on your part and to outright threaten to libel me across this board going forward is stalkerish, and if you are going to do that, you should actually go back and prove me wrong. Now it's more than a disagreement, it's an assertion of false statements. So prove it. You're the one whose felt so compelled to keep hounding me about it but you don't want to go back in a board that you post in every day so you validate you. But you don't. You just want to think you can go around throwing false claims that I am lying and hoping nobody will bother to check. If you cared as much as you presumably do since you are outright now being creepy and threatening to keep stalking me about this it seems logical that you would go back. It's not like I'm stopping you or there are any secrets, it's all here. You could if you cared. But it seems like you just get off on feeling important and asking people to jump through hoops to validate yourself to you. You simply just aren't that important. You are some guy on the internet. It's amusing that you are citing little rules to Internet Debate like you are some commissioner and trying to cap your posts with meaningless anecdotes, but it is what it is.

At first you were just some guy who said he didn't believe what I was saying and I shrugged it off, because ultimately it's an internet board and your opinion doesn't really matter to me. Then you got weird, creepy, self important and kept interjecting yourself. Note for the future, if you want to be the one to draw the line in the sand, then at some point you go do the work. You clearly are far more invested in your erroneous claim that I lied. Further note, if you are going to continue to have an inflated sense of self importance to the point where people not acquiescing to your laughable demands, you probably shouldn't act like creep stalking them and lower their opinion of you. When this started it came down to me not caring enough to go through hundreds/thousands of pages to find a few specific discussions to pull up a few quotes. And that was fine. Now it's turning into something far more obsessive and creepy on your end and getting weird. But feel free to continue, you can call me a liar, I'll call you a liar back and I feel more validated knowing you are wrong and I guess you can get off on the egotrip.

[PaulBullion]

Ivanka's deafening silence







Oh, it's quite easy to understand Ms. Complicit's silence if you're a hopeless cynic like me. Like I said in a previous post this morning, Ivanka is unwilling to complain about the administration's heartless "zero tolerance" policy, especially not in a public forum and risk getting cut out of daddy's will because he's too thin-skinned to tolerate any insubordination, not even from his kids. Then there's another, less complicated theory behind Ivanka's silence----she just plain doesn't give a flying fuck about traumatized little brown skinned kids from south of the border.

Ivanka is probably busy ordering the sewing machines to send to the concentration camps, to have the children produce her next spring collection.

[Tendrin]

Now it's turning into something far more obsessive and creepy on your end and getting weird. But feel free to continue, you can call me a liar, I'll call you a liar back and I feel more validated knowing you are wrong and I guess you can get off on the egotrip.

.

Ohhhhh brother.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Eh...just remember some of those angry youth are out there supporting people like Lauren Southern and Milo Y. They look to Jordan Peterson to save them from the "out of control leftists who have gone too far!"

I keep saying this too people but for years people have said the youth will deliver the government to the left. But the truth is once alot of these younger people start working and start living in communities like their conservative parents, they'll start to fall back into the tribalism. Then there is another chunk of them that are conservatives but just aren't open about it in an environment like a university where their peers will shout them down for it. It was very interesting to see how just a year or so out of college a lot of my friends shook out so differently on the political spectrum.

Now the good news is they will be a little more liberal socially than their parents. The bad news is, like their parents, they'll put their perceived self interests over liberal issues and will vote for someone like Trump if they think the party's economic tax plan is better for them.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

.

Ohhhhh brother.

Well I'm not the one who outright said that I was going to follow someone around and keep bringing up a disagreement we had because I didn't jump through his stupid little hoops and going through a long ass thread with a terrible search function to find all the comments of people venting about not voting for Sanders. They are there. Sorry that is creepy and obsessive behavior. And yeah he is displaying hallmark signs of someone with an inflated opinion of himself. It's almost like he got offended that I didn't get compelled to action to prove him wrong. Sorry he's just some dude on a message board. And he's the one who keeps pushing the issue but is to lazy to go back.

[Trey Strain]

Starbucks timeline.

Tuesday, May 29 -- The company shuts all its stores to give its employees "sensitivity training."

Monday, June 4 -- Executive Chairman Howard Schultz steps down.

Thursday, June 7 -- The company raises the price of its brewed coffee.

Tuesday, June 19 -- The company announces it will close 150 stores next year, as CEO Kevin Johnson calls its performance "not acceptable."

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Someday, guys like Bill Kristol and Steve Schmidt are going to have to reckon with how they helped get us here and we can't let them forget it.

Ehhhh I'd just take the win that they are seeing the light now. I see no benefit to alienating them and pushing them away once they are denouncing the party. They are better enemies of our enemies than dispassionate observers. At least as long as they are useful that way

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Starbucks timeline.

Tuesday, May 29 -- The company shuts all its stores to give its employees "sensitivity training."

Monday, June 4 -- Executive Chairman Howard Schultz steps down.

Thursday, June 7 -- The company raises the price of its brewed coffee.

Tuesday, June 19 -- The company announces it will close 150 stores next year, as CEO Kevin Johnson calls its performance "not acceptable."

That last one doesn't surprise me. I live in a city where every other street corner has a Starbucks. There is a point where you can dilute yourself. There's at least two starbucks within half a mile of my front door and third within a mile and at least two more within half a mile from that last one. And zero of those have a drive through so you have to go another half a mile to find one that has a drive through but no walk in.

[Tendrin]

Ehhhh I'd just take the win that they are seeing the light now. I see no benefit to alienating them and pushing them away once they are denouncing the party. They are better enemies of our enemies than dispassionate observers. At least as long as they are useful that way

In doing so, you lend them additional credibility, though. It's like all those people who cheered Judicial Watch when it went after some easy mark conservative targets, then spent years crying about Obama's vacations (and still is) while refusing to even talk about Trump's. We can certainly let them speak their peace, and this is important, but you have to do so in a way that does not build their credibility. Rest assured, these guys aren't going to become progressives and they'll turn around and go back to savaging it as soon as they feel they can replace Trumpism with their own brand of conservatism. We ought not build their followings for them.

The best things these guys can do is provide an exit with dignity for other conservatives who want to do the same but aren't sure how to do so in a way that feels intellectually consistent to themselves. A lost art in argument, especially these days, is how to leave someone a way out of the corner they're in