All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!

[Darkspellmaster]

So glad to see American soldier remains coming back from North Korea.

That is closure for some people in a big way.

Really hope this tract continues!

Before we celebrate. Can we make sure via DNA that those are really that person's remains. I trust nothing that comes from there with out full on testing it.

[ouroboros]

Making a (subjectively) constructive suggestion -- that "white" people get to know people of other backgrounds, other fellow Americans, before judging them -- is not "stirring the pot" unless your intention is to cause conflict rather than reconciliation.

To those always looking for conflict, though, it probably would seem that way.

"Getting to know" people is a lot different than having them as your "friends." Once again, I emphasize that Ingraham's essay is fundamentally dishonest because, even if there's partial truth in the PRRI stats, the writer ignores the fact that there are a lot of areas in the continental U.S. where white people are simply the only choice other people have for "friends."

Now if the PRRI codified their stats to apply only to large urban centers-- or semi-large, in order to include Ferguson (pop. 20,000 or so)-- that would be a little more precise. But Ingraham isn't interested in precision. He just wants to slam white people as the sole source of racial problems due to their ignorance.

He stops short of calling the logical process of "sorting" racist in nature, possibly because he knows that POC people follow much the same patterns.

Another factor is our tendency to seek out and associate with people who are similar to us in any number of ways - religiously, politically, economically and, yes, racially, too. The polite term for this phenomenon is "sorting," and it affects everything from political polarization to income inequality to the racial differences in friend networks seen above.

But even if one assumes an effect, it's jumping the gun to assume that, say, the events of Ferguson are the result of white ignorance:

Americans' segregated social circles have influenced responses to the events in Ferguson, Mo., over the past few weeks.

There may be historical events that show white ignorance, but given the DOJ's findings as to who was culpable in the shooting, Mike Brown is not a particularly good example.

It is, however, a good example of willful ignorance on the part of Black Americans. The moment the news broke, I never saw a single Black American voice any doubts but that it was a racist shooting, that Johnson was totally honest about Brown being shot in the back, and so on. No other verdict was possible. Even the fact that the DOJ made judgments against Ferguson as a whole still doesn't keep people-- not only black people, admittedly-- from calling Brown's shooting "murder."

Did lack of fellow-feeling allow Ferguson cops to treat black citizens as an underclass, through practices like disproportionate ticketing? Maybe, though it's also likely that blacks were targeted because they lacked the disposable income to fight tickets. But lack of fellow-feeling isn't responsible for Michael Brown committing a petty theft and trying to fight a cop for his gun.

[ouroboros]

I described what is factually happening in America right now in my post. No embellishment.

It is indeed heartbreaking that one has to think immediately of Nazis.

If Trump and his cronies aren't literal members of the Nazi Party, it's embellishment, all right.

Why not just own your comments for what they are?

[ouroboros]

In related news, trans journalist and veteran Charlotte Clymer got kicked out of restaurant in DC for trying to use the ladies' room. She works for the Human Rights Campaign, this will not end well for the restaurant. Twitter thread here:
https://twitter.com/cmclymer/status/1010586785079013382

Maybe the restaurant will suffer, but the principle of this exclusion aren't essentially different from the exclusion of Sanders.

[ouroboros]

But it is likely the most offensive "joke" she ever told and gives us an idea of her over-all character, which isn't good.
Offensive, off color jokes aren't meant to be funny. The joke is the excuse the teller is using when the real objective is to be offensive and the teller is too cowardly to share their views in public and face criticism.

I confess I don't know what Roseanne had in mind with her Holocaust joke-- and neither does anyone else here-- but the fact that she didn't state a particular agenda might simply mean that she thought she was attacking a shibboleth, as opposed to Samantha Bee's completely ideological (and equally tasteless) comment about Ivanka seducing her dad.

And yes, I'll defend "equally." Bad taste does not become worse in terms of the number of people travestied.

[ouroboros]

If memory serves, Roseanne made the same "joke" she made about Valerie Jarrett that got her fired a few years back about Ambassador Susan Rice.

So it's not a one off she just has his pattern of making "jokes" that compare female African American politicians to apes.

I'm sure ourorboros would like to explain to everyone why that's totally not racist, but I think everyone already knows better.

I assume you discount Roseanne's claim that she didn't know Jarrett was a Black American, and mistook her for a person of North African descent.

I'm not claiming it's mitigating; I just want to know if you discount her story.

[numberthirty]

Actually they do and are winning. Frickin Socialists are winning around the country. Saying that Progressive ideals don't win is a backhanded way of saying, "Only Pragmastism wins, because it's been that way for so long. TIP said all politics is local."

Maybe in the 70's and 80's. Thinking of the way things ran in the past isn ignoring the present and future. Trump showed that.

Never mind more than one teacher's union going out on "General"/"Wildcat" strikes recently, and made modest gains.

I think that Progressive policy has more appeal than folks realize.

[Tazirai]

Never mind more than one teacher's union going out on "General"/"Wildcat" strikes recently, and made modest gains.

I think that Progressive policy has more appeal than folks realize.

I never understand what so-called "Progressives" have against Progressive Policy? The argument is Pragmatism wins, Progressivism doesn't. Yet we see Republicans pushing a SUPER Fascist Far Right agenda, and mostly winning. They aren't even trying to lie and say they are working in the middle. But Progressive Policy which helps everyone is a non starter? GTFOH!

When the Democratic party stops attacking Progressives and backing people like Manchin and Corrupt Joe Crowley, we might be able to make some real gains.

I honestly think Manchin is going down this year. Manchin doesn't have much of a message.

[InformationGeek]

That sounds like a threat.

[aja_christopher]

Actually they do and are winning. Frickin Socialists are winning around the country. Saying that Progressive ideals don't win is a backhanded way of saying, "Only Pragmastism wins, because it's been that way for so long. TIP said all politics is local."
Maybe in the 70's and 80's. Thinking of the way things ran in the past isn ignoring the present and future. Trump showed that.

Nah, it's just pointing out that works "politically" on a local level (say in California or Mississippi) doesn't always work out on a national level -- which is exactly why I pointed to Kucinich as an example.

When I see a diehard progressive actually win a national election, I'll believe that it can happen -- until then, I respect the ideal but won't deny reality.

And all Trump showed is that people need to take voting more seriously and that our government needs to be more protective of our electoral process -- Trump's people showed up while the Democrats and the "progressives" sat around bickering and placing blame... same as it is now.

I watched it play out during the election and honestly, it seems like Sanders supporters are the ones living in the past. He lost and Clinton lost and that's the end of it -- you win some and you lose some, that's just politics.

In my honest opinion, the Democrats should have never let him run on the ticket if he wanted to retain his "independent" status, so the entire argument is moot to me anyway.

[numberthirty]

Well...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/b...u-tariffs.html

Harley-Davidson, Blaming E.U. Tariffs, Will Move Some Production Out of U.S.

[aja_christopher]

"Getting to know" people is a lot different than having them as your "friends." Once again, I emphasize that Ingraham's essay is fundamentally dishonest because, even if there's partial truth in the PRRI stats, the writer ignores the fact that there are a lot of areas in the continental U.S. where white people are simply the only choice other people have for "friends.".

That these white people don't have friends of color isn't the primary issue, especially if they don't live in the same area -- the problem being noted is that the racism of the past remains in place because there is nothing there to challenge it on a personal level.

You're taking this as an attack on "whites" when it's really just an observation -- and honestly, if you don't see the point of getting to know people of color (or challenging systemic racism in general) then it's not something that should matter to you regardless.

[BeastieRunner]

Well...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/25/b...u-tariffs.html

A nail plant closed in the redist district in Missouri today due to the steel tariffs.

Trump's dumb policy is affecting his constituents.

[aja_christopher]

Repeat post.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Nixon level polling for impeachment. But Trump is somehow the most popular, unbeatable President since Reagan?

There's nearly a Nixon '74 level of public support for impeaching Trump

Nixon lost the party. Trump didn’t