All-purpose news and politics thread: Two Steps Beyond!

[Tendrin]

Between my wife and I, we're saving about $2400-$3000 dollars thanks to the tax cuts. We're firmly middle class. And I'm better off than most thanks to A LOT of difficult decisions, work and restraint. As I said, I don't even carry debt if at all avoidable because of how dangerous that practice is. No car loans, no school loans and no credit card debt go a long way to improving how much effective cash flow one has. Debt is a noose that only tightens so eliminating it is the best path to improving your economic situation. Can suck in the mean time because it means missing out on things but you come out the other side that much better. Deferring gratification is a bitter pill though but I watched my parents do it for a long time before they were able to afford everything they have.

I think, like a lot of people, you pretty obviously do not understand how fortunate you are.

That said, if you're getting a nice boost now and aren't as well off as it seems, you'll be getting hammered hard in a few scant years by the nature of the bill, don't worry.

[PunishedFire]

That means you're a racist.

No, judging people based on their race would mean I'm a racist.

I don't. So I'm not a racist.

Racism is identity politics and I don't subscribe to identity politics. People have FAR more individual qualities than anything having to do with their race, so it's far better to know people for the person they are.

Judging people based on superficial qualities is dumb (and a poor business practice). Heck, you can't even judge people based on self-inflicted superficial qualities. I've met at least one person covered in pretty nasty tattoos (and by that I mean Aryan-brotherhood and Nazi stuff) that was a genuinely good person that had had come through a very very dark time in his life. He simply couldn't afford to have them removed or covered up and it was one of the couple biggest regrets of his life. Another guy I worked with was similarly marked up with gang tattoos and had been out of jail and really turned his life around, rejected what he had previously thought and was working to do better.

The human animal is a complicated creature.

[Tendrin]

No, judging people based on their race would mean I'm a racist.

I don't. So I'm not a racist.

Racism is identity politics and I don't subscribe to identity politics. People have FAR more individual qualities than anything having to do with their race, so it's far better to know people for the person they are.

Judging people based on superficial qualities is dumb (and a poor business practice). Heck, you can't even judge people based on self-inflicted superficial qualities. I've met at least one person covered in pretty nasty tattoos (and by that I mean Aryan-brotherhood and Nazi stuff) that was a genuinely good person that had had come through a very very dark time in his life. He simply couldn't afford to have them removed or covered up and it was one of the couple biggest regrets of his life. Another guy I worked with was similarly marked up with gang tattoos and had been out of jail and really turned his life around, rejected what he had previously thought and was working to do better.

The human animal is a complicated creature.

...oh boy.

[JCAll]

The Democrats got tremendously excited because they thought they had found the Kryptonite that would destroy Trump, But they hadn't. They've badly misread public opinion about the borders.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/25/opini...ion/index.html

Are you only capable of processing world events as they pertain to sticking it to other people? Has it at all occurred to you that people might actually care about things beyond using it as ammunition to attack Trump?

[JCAll]

People do realize the next step is Conservative owned businesses refusing service to liberals and then all hell breaks lose because people can't coexist? Just see the potential for this to become a shitshow. Oh well, good thing I only shop at liberal stores because I have good taste.

That seems unlikely to apply to anyone other than public figures.

[PunishedFire]

I think, like a lot of people, you pretty obviously do not understand how fortunate you are.

Oh there are people that have had it worse. Anyone alive that says otherwise is a fraud. Then again, we're posting from the western world with internet access on a comic book forum so we're all members of the 1% of the world.

That said, realizing how one comes to be where they are is quite a bit different from not recognizing it. It's the exact opposite really. "Fortunate" is just a loaded term. Most outcomes in life are down to effort, not luck. Luck is a lie. Luck removes agency. I'm big on agency and therefore not big on luck.

I'm where I am because of the efforts of my parents (efforts that outstripped my own efforts, mind you...something I am eternally grateful for and in awe of) and then decisions I was able to make both on my own and with good advice from others.

[Tendrin]

Oh there are people that have had it worse. Anyone alive that says otherwise is a fraud. Then again, we're posting from the western world with internet access on a comic book forum so we're all members of the 1% of the world.

That said, realizing how one comes to be where they are is quite a bit different from not recognizing it. It's the exact opposite really. "Fortunate" is just a loaded term. Most outcomes in life are down to effort, not luck. Luck is a lie. Luck removes agency. I'm big on agency and therefore not big on luck.

I'm where I am because of the efforts of my parents (efforts that outstripped my own efforts, mind you...something I am eternally grateful for and in awe of) and then decisions I was able to make both on my own and with good advice from others.

This reminds me of one of those stories I read in yahoo finance: "I retired by 36 due to the house I bought with a loan from my parents" :P

[numberthirty]

Given the Harley Davidson news, I'm thinking we're about to hit a major recession very soon.

When it comes to this, I do think that it's important not to lose track of that it is Harley-Davidson we are talking about. They are about as mercenary as it gets, and they have the actual means to just shift production.

Not every company is that/have that means.

All that said, there are other less than promising signs.

You also have a very clear case of that it is an EU move that hurt American workers.

[PunishedFire]

This reminds me of one of those stories I read in yahoo finance: "I retired by 36 due to the house I bought with a loan from my parents" :P

Well, yahoo is pretty garbage.

I just avoid consumerism. I've never smoked, never done any drugs, I've never had alcohol...so I don't have any overhead for vices. I live modestly in general. I don't purchase expensive vehicles (I've only ever bought 2 and both are just reliable, average vehicles) and I take care of a lot of my own work around the house.

People also don't tend to save or invest. I grew up having to work and save half of all of the money I ever made or was given. It put me in the habit of only buying things after really determining that I wanted or needed them instead of impulse buying. Now that my finances are really good and I have no debt or payments (paid off my current car in 2 years instead of 7 and paid off student loans in 10 years instead of 16, both by sacrificing a lot of otherwise available money) to make, it lets me be a little less frugal. I still coupon and still invest and still save though. Unemployment is always a possibility and I've gone through it before but you make do (in my case, it was painting nails until I could find something else in my field).

I think a cartoon of that fable of the ant and the grasshopper really stuck with me.

EDIT:

Just thought of a really comic relevant savings story...

I once saved coins and dollars over the course of a summer just to buy the Marvel Universe II trading card set from my first LCS. It was $50 and I must have been like...9 or 10? I ended up going into the shop with this giant bag of coins with a few dollars inside I had got from selling drawings for a quarter in school (mostly Ninja Turtles and Batman) and stuff like that. The shop owner sat with me and we counted out every nickle, dime and quarter to make sure I wasn't mistaken. It felt like it took an eternity...but I was able to walk out with that set of cards where I got to learn all of the statistics of all the superheroes I was just learning about. I still have that entire set of cards in a big binder.

[Tendrin]

Well, yahoo is pretty garbage.

I just avoid consumerism. I've never smoked, never done any drugs, I've never had alcohol...so I don't have any overhead for vices. I live modestly in general. I don't purchase expensive vehicles (I've only ever bought 2 and both are just reliable, average vehicles) and I take care of a lot of my own work around the house.

People also don't tend to save or invest. I grew up having to work and save half of all of the money I ever made or was given. It put me in the habit of only buying things after really determining that I wanted or needed them instead of impulse buying. Now that my finances are really good and I have no debt or payments (paid off my current car in 2 years instead of 7 and paid off student loans in 10 years instead of 16, both by sacrificing a lot of otherwise available money) to make, it lets me be a little less frugal. I still coupon and still invest and still save though. Unemployment is always a possibility and I've gone through it before but you make do (in my case, it was painting nails until I could find something else in my field).

I think a cartoon of that fable of the ant and the grasshopper really stuck with me.

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you were able to do a lot of this because of your parents.

[aja_christopher]

We were supposed to be in a recession two years ago when Trump won.

No reasonably objective person believed that -- recessions don't just happen overnight and we're still largely cruising off the eight years of growth that Obama's administration put into action after the record global recession that the last Republican party initiated.

There's not much point in conjecture here but let's not pretend Trump created the economic stability, recovery and growth that America has experienced over the past eight or nine years.

If Trump can do the same over the next two to six years, then your defense of him will be valid, but until then we're just going to have to see what happens.

[Kevinroc]

When it comes to this, I do think that it's important not to lose track of that it is Harley-Davidson we are talking about. They are about as mercenary as it gets, and they have the actual means to just shift production.

Not every company is that/have that means.

All that said, there are other less than promising signs.

You also have a very clear case of that it is an EU move that hurt American workers.

I actually don't disagree. As I also posted...

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...r-layoffs-asks

Nail manufacturing exec who voted for Trump blames him for layoffs, asks Democrat for help

I expect we'll see more stories like this going forward.

[PunishedFire]

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say you were able to do a lot of this because of your parents.

You're gonna need to be more specific than that.

Do we mean "because of my parents" in general where they raised me well?

Or..."because of my parents" because they gave me something?

If the former, yes absolutely I credit them a lot.

If the latter, no. I don't ask my parents for things. Especially not money. They've given me more than enough in my life. My debt has all been paid off with my money. Decisions have also been mine to make.

My parents grew up in the 70's so both have had drugs. Both drink alcohol. Both smoke (despite my best efforts). I do none of those things and never have simply as a matter of personal preference. I once calculated that based on average times dining out and my preference for what to drink with dinner (I don't drink caffeine either except in rare cases, like recently having had a Cherry Coke for my birthday) I had saved about $5000 in a decade. I can only imagine what some people spend on things like cigarettes. Crunching the number on cigarettes is even wilder! Like $1000 per year!

[numberthirty]

I actually don't disagree. As I also posted...

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...r-layoffs-asks

Nail manufacturing exec who voted for Trump blames him for layoffs, asks Democrat for help

I expect we'll see more stories like this going forward.

Oh, yeah. I gave that one a look.

While I would hope there's not a lot of that, I'd agree that not every company is going to be in a position to ride things out without any difficulties.

[PunishedFire]

No reasonably objective person believed that

"Bridgewater Associates sent out a note to its clients predicting that the Dow Jones Industrial Average could plunge nearly 2,000 points in one day if Trump is elected president. That would be the biggest one-day slump in stock market history, by more than double, besting the 777 point plunge that happened on October 29, 2008, at the high of the panic surrounding the financial crisis. The drop would translate into a 10.4% dive, and immediately send the stock market into correction territory."

No reasonable person...except the largest hedge fund in the world?

Let's see what other reasonable people also stated there'd be an IMMEDIATE economic downturn...

Paul Krugman of the New York Times (economist)
Eric Zitzewitz, economist
Ben White of Politico
Steve Rattner of MSNBC (economist)
Michael Moore (lol!)

Interesting hot take. I take it all these people are not reasonably objective by your standards? Presumably, we can then discount the places they work since those places do not hire reasonably objective people?

Nah. I think they were just REALLY wrong...but I also think they were really wrong out of a mixture of (slight) ignorance and (major) emotional reaction. I could be incorrect...but I wasn't wrong about the market post-election (CHA-CHING!) just as I wasn't wrong about the election in the first place.

Then again, maybe they just AREN'T reasonably objective...but that brings with it a MAJOR slew of questions about why these people could EVER be considered experts and just how deep their biases go...as well as the biases of the outlets giving them a platform.

Hmm.

Sorry, but I see this a lot. There's all these unbelievable hyperbolic predictions about what WILL DEFINITELY HAPPEN OMG WHY AREN'T YOU DOING SOMETHING...then when it doesn't occur (and the opposite happens even) it's "No one REASONABLE actually believed that"

Trump will go to war with Russia
Trump will get us nuked by North Korea
If Trump gets elected the stock market will crash
Trump can't get nominated
Trump can't win the election

Sorry, the apocalyptic prediction game isn't working out too well. It's become too much like "The End is Nigh!" painted on a cardboard sign held by a crazy man on a street corner. I think I'll keep going with the people I've been listening to and the insights I've been able to glean and intuit. Those have been WAY more accurate for me.