VILLAINS! Your Thoughts On: VERONICA CALE

[Agent Z]

Since no one has made this yet, I thought I'd make a thread to discuss one of Greg Rucka's great additions to Wonder Woman's mythos, Veronica Cale.



For those not familiar with her, here's the skinny: Veronica Cale made her first appearance in Wonder Woman Issue 196 and is the CEO of Cale-Anderson Pharmaceuticals.The daughter of a stripper and a married man, Veronica Cale grew up in poverty in a bad part of Dallas. Her mother encouraged her to read, get her educated, so her daughter wouldn't live the same life as she did. And Veronica discovered she was smart. Very, very smart. Having worked hard to get to the top, Veronica is not a huge fan of Wonder Woman, seeing the Amazon Ambassador's messages of empowerment and equality to be the height of hypocrisy. Basically she's what people who don't like Wonder Woman made into a fictional character. While this may seem like a lame motivation for a villain, I kind of like it. It shows that Diana's presence in the world can be equally negative and positive and can fuel stories about the ideological battles between these two women. My favorite scheme of hers is when she Diana writes a book on Amazon philosophy, Cale uses selected quotations to turn the media against her.

What I like about Veronica is that while her reasons for Diana may seem petty, they are in some ways sympathetic. She does want to women to be inspired, but feels it should be by women who pull themselves up from the ground, not by a privileged Amazon princess. As a character she can be used to offer some interesting commentary on Diana's beliefs. I'd really like to see how she would be handled in the New 52. What do you guys think?

P.S can someone help me with how to set up a pole for these things?

[Vanguard-01]

Didn't like her myself.

She was so two-dimensional and generic. A supposed "feminist" trying to destroy another feminist for the crime of coming from a different walk of life than she did. Basically, she's a pure narcissist. If you aren't EXACTLY like her? You ain't crap.

I realize Rucka was trying to give Diana her own "Lex Luthor" but this woman was just so bland and uninteresting to me, that I just wanted to see her fall on her face and fail utterly. I didn't sympathize with her at all. A woman who suffered and struggled should be more sympathetic to other people who weren't as lucky as she was and for her to waste her time and money going after another woman who DOES care about those people just makes her repulsive, shallow, and totally hypocritical.

[Agent Z]

Didn't like her myself.

She was so two-dimensional and generic. A supposed "feminist" trying to destroy another feminist for the crime of coming from a different walk of life than she did. Basically, she's a pure narcissist. If you aren't EXACTLY like her? You ain't crap.

I realize Rucka was trying to give Diana her own "Lex Luthor" but this woman was just so bland and uninteresting to me, that I just wanted to see her fall on her face and fail utterly. I didn't sympathize with her at all. A woman who suffered and struggled should be more sympathetic to other people who weren't as lucky as she was and for her to waste her time and money going after another woman who DOES care about those people just makes her repulsive, shallow, and totally hypocritical.

Fair enough. I don't think you're really meant to agree with her, just understand where she comes from. Envy is a very real human emotion that can drive us to do all kinds of crazy things. Now that I think about it, maybe Rucka went about it the wrong way. Instead of Veronica being Diana's "Lex Luthor", she should be her "Jonah Jameson" someone who opposes the hero without being an outright villain.

[Vanguard-01]

Fair enough. I don't think you're really meant to agree with her, just understand where she comes from. Envy is a very real human emotion that can drive us to do all kinds of crazy things. Now that I think about it, maybe Rucka went about it the wrong way. Instead of Veronica being Diana's "Lex Luthor", she should be her "Jonah Jameson" someone who opposes the hero without being an outright villain.

Oh, I understand that she's jealous of Diana. And as far as I'm concerned, that only makes her more contemptible to me. She's not a real feminist if her main motivation is getting back at one woman for the crime of having more than she does.

Yeah, that may have gone better. If she were really just out to discredit and/or critique Diana, that may have made her make sense. But the idea that she would waste her time and money to try to destroy Diana rather than trying to make things better for women just makes her too hypocritical to even try to take seriously.

And, of course, she would have to be like Jonah Jameson.......before he turned into a true villain who actually tried to kill Spider-Man as well. Jameson was ruined by turning him that dark. The same would prove true for Veronica Cale.

[Dr. Hurt]

Blatant and failed attempt to give WW a Lex Luthor of her own. It would have been better if she had a different motivation than Luthor's so that she didnt feel like a direct copycat of his. We've seen it all before with Luthor, why bother with her?

[AmiMizuno]

I think her character can work but it's how they write her. She can be tied in with Diana's other villain the mask

[ed2962]

I actually liked Cale. I like the idea of the master villain who's a threat due to their scheming and manipulation rather than a physical threat. The fact that she's a poor example of feminism I thought was the point. She's Diana's Lex and her Dr Doom...she's the person who's already brilliant and could achieve so much more and be even greater than the hero, yet she blows it cuz she's consumed by jealously and envy. When done right, such characters can be almost Shakespearian.

[Dr. Poison]

I can take her or leave her although there are many other Wonder-rogues I'd like to see return before she does.

[Nyssane]

In my opinion, she's the only negative aspect of Rucka's run. He spent far too much time on her without having much to show for it. That time could've been spent fleshing out the Embassy staff or other villains. I think she's best left in limbo... we don't need a female Lex Luthor.

[SiegePerilous02]

She seems like some sort of hybrid of Lex, the Baroness and Priscilla Rich!Cheetah, but not as interesting as any of the three. Making her so similar to Lex Luthor isn't doing Diana any favors, as it just makes her look more like She-Superman. It doesn't help that I'm way more partial to mad scientist Lex than businessman Lex, the latter of which she's modeled after.

[Agent Z]

She seems like some sort of hybrid of Lex, the Baroness and Priscilla Rich!Cheetah, but not as interesting as any of the three. Making her so similar to Lex Luthor isn't doing Diana any favors, as it just makes her look more like She-Superman. It doesn't help that I'm way more partial to mad scientist Lex than businessman Lex, the latter of which she's modeled after.

Well it seems that writers are focusing on mad scientist Luthor more than businessman Luthor, so if she comes back the corrupt CEO theme won't feel so forced.

[Razor Tiara]

I quite enjoyed Veronica Cale. Wonder Woman needs a cerebral villain that attacks indirectly and Cale fit that bill admirably. Unlike Luthor, she was more like political author Ann Coulter or the Governor of Arizona Jan Brewer, in a more pleasing package. Speaking of which her beauty mark and fake black pearls were a great part of her characterization. They harkened back to her unfortunate childhood, as the daughter of a stripper/sex worker. Her up from the bottom social standing was mirrored by the cheap jewelry made classy, because of the prominence of their wearer.

Also her motivation made perfect sense to me. The original poster Cheetah's assertion that she was "people who don't like Wonder Woman made into a fictional character" was very close to the mark. Many of the things she says here, closely resemble what Diana's detractors have said on various comic book message boards.



With the addition of the gemstone embedded in her shoulder, it seemed as if Greg Rucka was working to make Veronica Cale the new Dr. Cyber, or a more physical threat to Wonder Woman, but alas it was not meant to be.

[Pinsir]

> underdeveloped
> already forgotten
> female Lex Luthor
> Rucka doesn't even give her a good send off

[Punisher007]

I like the idea of a character like this. A non-powered, scheming, puppetmaster-type villain that WW cannot simply defeat by punching (actually I just like those kinds of villains in general). Also, someone who is good at manipulating the public. Not all of Diana's rogues have to be magical, or mythological, or even costumed-based. "A schemer in a suit" is a nice change of pace. The trick is to put enough time and effort into showing that she's not just a Lex Luthor copy. With these kinds of villains, there's always going to be some similarities by their very nature. Lex, Norman Osborn, David Xanatos, etc. They've all got some similarities. However, their respective writers also did a really good job of showing that there were many differences as well, so they don't fell like carbon copies of one another. Cale can work as a character if they do that with her as well.

[Razor Tiara]

> underdeveloped
> already forgotten
> female Lex Luthor
> Rucka doesn't even give her a good send off

Rucka himself didn't get a good sendoff. How was he supposed to provide one for his characters?