Team Green vs Team Red

[The Dork Knight]

That means all of nothing.

It means something when it is unclear what actually happened in the comic

They were shown grappling but was he stopping his forward momentum ? That bit is unclear and dependent on speculation

Speculation that the writer of the comic cleared up

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Or.... (and this is going from very vague memory)... wasn't Herc just trying to stop resisting partly to get Hulk to quit his ragefest before he hurt too many people and partly because he actually agreed that Hulk had been treated shittily so empathised a bit.

Maybe I'm completely misremembering, but I don't think Herc was beaten into submission. He didn't even want to HAVE to fight Hulk and got involved just to try and be a cathartic punchbag for Hulk to get him to calm the f**k down.

That's not the same thing at all.

Of course, as I say, I may be misremembering.

Herc didn't want to fight his friend.

It means something when it is unclear what actually happened in the comic

They were shown grappling but was he stopping his forward momentum ? That bit is unclear and dependent on speculation

Speculation that the writer of the comic cleared up

There was no speculation, up until you started inserting your personal opinion on how things went. Beyond that, I just read the comic and there's nothing unclear about it. Hulk stepped out of the way of the Juggernaut and he shot forward.

Beyond that Hulk has never done ANYTHING that would insinuate he could hold the Juggernaut from moving. Writer comments don't change that.

[The Dork Knight]

Herc didn't want to fight his friend.

Yet fought him he did any way . Beat up he got anyway

There was no speculation, up until you started inserting your personal opinion on how things went. Beyond that, I just read the comic and there's nothing unclear about it. Hulk stepped out of the way of the Juggernaut and he shot forward.

My personal opinion ? No , bro that's the writer's personal opinion which he showed in the comic by having them lock up in the middle till the building started collapsing



As you can clearly see , Hulk stopped him till the building started crumbling

Beyond that Hulk has never done ANYTHING that would insinuate he could hold the Juggernaut from moving. Writer comments don't change that.

Hey now that's a valid argument . What's the strongest thing that failed to stopped the Juggernaut from moving?

[Beadle]

Or, to flip it, what's the weakest thing that HAS stopped him? And that's probably a frickin' Godblast. And even then, only momentarily.

[The Dork Knight]

War Hulk stopped him

Not WWH . The celestial tech amped version from the 90s

[Anarchist]

Which was fine, really.

[Pendaran]

He didn't cause an earthquake because he was holding back . I agree he was back to WWH levels but wasn't that the Hulk for the majority of his solo title from 2006 ?

"I am again trying to have it both ways".

Because no, it wasn't. That was twice marked out as a singular rage state, where you somehow want to claim "the Hulk was holding back from the start, that's why nothing was further damaged, even though damage already started happening with just his steps" You claims make no sense with each other.

My personal opinion ? No , bro that's the writer's personal opinion which he showed in the comic by having them lock up in the middle till the building started collapsing

They moved into grappling each other. By your standard this means everyone that has grappled the Juggernaut has stopped him.

As you can clearly see , Hulk stopped him till the building started crumbling

I can clearly see two guys grappling each other.

[Pendaran]

Then the other explanation is that Hulk hit him so hard he was forced to admit defeat and lie down with his broken face , ergo Hulk overpowered him

No, the actual events of the comic are that they came to try and talk to the Hulk to help him, the Hulk attacked them, and Herc tried to break him off doing so long enough to try talking to him again.

Nothing you say makes any sense given that Herc's response to the Hulk hitting him was /to hit and plant the Hulk, then stop fighting entirely/. He stopped fighting before he was attacked again. He planted the Hulk, then put him his hands Your use of the words "forced to admit defeat" do not work. The Hulk sure punched the guy up in what amounted to three blows. Of course, Herc had shown he was capable of blocking the Hulk's shots and that his own attacks could drop the guy down, hurt him, draw blood and have him rubbing at his head as he got back up.

Oh, because I know that it's going to be a thing "well they bought time for Herc to recover like with Skaar!" yes, and while the Hulk was similarly down on his ass, Herc stood back for his own part and did nothing to stop the Hulk from similarly getting back up. Instead of following up, he stood back and put his hands out.

I'm otherwise going to specifically repeat what you said:

Then the other explanation is that Hulk hit him so hard he was forced to admit defeat and lie down with his broken face

Here is what actually happened:

http://postimg.org/image/n7h82roml/

Here is what you said:

Hulk hit him so hard he was forced to admit defeat and lie down with his broken face

Here's the Hulk hitting him on the previous page:

http://postimg.org/image/yfqegrb35/

I'm missing where Herc admitted defeat and lied down with his broken face in response to that punch, instead of outright getting up and punching the Hulk after he scattered everyone else, then putting up his hands and saying "no more", as if he didn't actually want to fight the Hulk.

He sure went down onto his ass with his broken face afterwards after the Hulk kept punching him instead while Hercules kept saying after each punch "no more" and that they were here to help the Hulk.

Just to throw it in generally, Herc showing that he was capable otherwise of blocking the Hulk's punches.

http://postimg.org/image/5qhc6ujh9/

Now, did Herc get a beating here? Sure. And in not all that many strikes. Of course Herc demonstrated that when actually fighting, despite, since you are making such a big deal about it with Skaar vs the Hulk, visibly not actually wanting to fight, he could block the Hulk's shots and hurt the guy, trumping it like some great showing of dominance does not take. Unless there's some later comic that retcons this, things did not go how you said.

Yes and a psychic backlash . Why leave that out ?

Because like so many things with regards claims you make about other people leaving things out about comics, and your own readings of them, no, he dropped him to his hands and knees before the psychic backlash.

http://postimg.org/image/5hjptc4gj/

The backlash did not happen until 2 pages later. I'm going to go one over limit to demonstrate this, my apologies.

http://postimg.org/image/4v7dauvmx/

http://postimg.org/image/skxbcphkz/

http://postimg.org/image/wc77dnyi5/

He did it with punches. The psychic backlash did not happen until 3 pages later.

No, shrugging off punches is what Hulk did when he got back up unharmed from Skaars first punch . Skaar was getting overpowered before Hulk tossed him aside

At that point yes , a Skaar who had been struggling with Hulk so far started matching him blow for blow for some reason till the end of the fight when Hulk beat him down and stopped holding back

So, just to be clear, the Hulk totally destroyed Skaar while holding back. Then started matching him blow for blow after he went out of his way to piss the Hulk off at him, then at the end the Hulk beat him down "when he stopped holding back."

But if the Hulk stopped holding back, why wasn't the seaboard or anything destroyed? After all, he was shaking it before, when he was just holding back.

This is definitely a showing that clearly shows the things you want it to show, as far as how your claims work out with themselves.

Okay . So the distraction mattered . He still ended up beating Skaar in the end easily with a few punches ....just like he was doing at the beginning of the story except he didn't let up or hold back this time

Can you reconcile these statements just at all with the importance you give on "look at what the Hulk even just powering up was shaking!"

Hulk himself said he had been holding back in previous WB transformations . In this fight specifically , despite getting beaten up he was still trying to save people

So I don't really get why you disagree with that he was holding back as an explanation for why he didn't shake the seaboard

Well let's start with "it makes no sense with your own posts" and go from there.

Again , correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Green Scar version the Hulk that appears in his own solo title from 2006 to when Waid started writing on the title ?

So, again, despite that in WWH, even the "Green Scar Hulk", needed extra special rage goading and to be in the midst of despair and fury to reach the level of potency that he did in that moment, again, taking it at face value, and that the second time it "happened", again, ignoring everything else about it and taking it at face value, Banner specifically outlined that as "A Hulk who still thinks you all killed his loved ones and people", why are these relevant remotely to a Hulk not at all in such moments?

Well obviously that involves a lot of PIS given their abilities beyond " class 100 brick "

Then why does beating up the Red Hulk matter for anything you are otherwise trying to claim here?

[Pendaran]

No , bro that's the writer's personal opinion

Is it? Because while people sure like to claim that on the internet and focus on a single part of what the guy said, the one image I have found of the actual statement from the guy is him instead being incredibly wishy washy, saying things like "his force was redirected downwards" to qualify "he stopped him for a moment", and having big pink letters plastered over the e-mail to obscure more of it, in which it mostly comes off like the guy saying it's all "semantics" (his actual words) and not really wanting to stake out a strong opinion on the matter, and people basically plucking out the words they want to hear while ignoring or even outright covering up the rest of it.

Closing a reply with "I'm going to take the coward's way out" is not someone trying to give some strong opinion on what happened. People acting like it is, well, it's typical.