New Age of Heroes, Marvel proxies, & The Avengers.....

[Ascended]

Whether you're reading any of the New Age titles or not (Silencer, Sideways, Unexpected, etc) odds are you know that these books are clearly analogues for Marvel properties. The Terrifics = Fantastic Four. Sideways = Spider-Man. Damage = Hulk. And so on and so forth.

Now, this isn't new; these two companies have been borrowing and stealing from each other from the start. For nearly any character at one company, you can find a copy at the other. But I don't know if I've ever seen either Marvel or DC be so blatant about it, or provide a full imprint of titles that so clearly riff on the popular IP's of the competition. And I actually love it; I think it was a great, ballsy move on DC's part to try to offer Marvel fans something that feels so familiar, especially during a time when Marvel has been pushing their new legacy characters so much and a lot of established fans are missing the familiar faces.

But I find it interesting that some of the biggest Marvel franchises didn't get the New Age spin.

Where's the New Age equivalent of the Avengers or X-Men? Or Invaders? Or whoever?

So I thought.....let's see what everyone here thinks. Do we need to see a New Age Avengers or Nova Corps or X-Men? What shape would that take? Would you want to see established characters in the roster/s (like the Terrifics)? Would you want to see old names with new faces (like Firebrand, Neon, Damage)? Totally new characters with new names (Silencer, Sideways)? Maybe a mix of all three?

What IP's of Marvel's would you want to see get the DC/New Age treatment? What, if any, specific twists on the Marvel characters would you want to see?

I know the floppy sales on the New Age books aren't anything to get excited about. That's besides the point. For the purposes of this thread we're just going to assume that these books are doing as well as DC had hoped they would, and the trade orders and digital sales are strong enough to warrant a minor expansion. It's not about whether DC *should* make more New Age books, its about what kind of shape you want to see those hypothetical books take.

[Korath]

I'm not a particularly avid Marvel reader, but I think I would like to see an adaptation of the Inhumans, mostly. The X-Men are bigger names, but I feel that they have become really hard to enter into (in fact, every attempt the last few years to read the X-Men books instead of the OML or Wolverine has left me lost and confused as a newcomer) and Inhumans-like characters could be used to develop the cosmic side of DC. I think I would do something like this :

• The Dominators and the Reach have been at war for thousands of years, before even the First Coming of Barbatos on Earth, roughly 50 000 years ago (I think)
• Primitive men driving the Dragon-Bat away attract the attention of the Dominators, who decides that those "Metas" would make great weapons in their war against the Scarab techno-magic arsenal of the Reach
• The Dominator "refine" the metas to create a line of powerful warriors, but they are driven out of Earth both by their bio-weapons rebelling and The Reach pressing deeper into their territory and starting to send Scarab on systems near Earth, while Martians are rising in power in the SOlar System, making the whole situation too messy to do anything but flee
• The "Inhumans" settle in an cave system below Antarctica made hospitable by their powers and the Dominator technology

It's rough and full of problems, but I would like to read something like that.

[DrNewGod]

The Avengers began as knockoffs of the Justice League, and the Nova Corps morphed into knockoffs of the Green Lantern Corps, so they're already covered.

The X-Men and Doom Patrol debuted at about the same time, and are often compared (IMO, both were really intended as sketchier knockoffs of the Fantastic Four, an irony since the FF was Kirby's superpowered cover of his own Challengers of the Unknown).

In some ways pre-Flashpoint JSA was something of an X-Men riff, focused as it was on nurturing the next generation of superhero talent. Marvel turned around and knocked that off with some of their Initiative titles like Avengers Academy.

If there's anything of Marvel's that DC has never tried to knockoff (to my knowledge), it's Luke Cage. Black Lightning (1977) was enough later than Cage (1972) and Blaxploitation Film's heyday that I can't see them as the same. Plus early Cage's recognition of race issues was much more stark (for the time) than BL's, almost demonstrating a resentful swagger that BL (a much more conventional superhero, masquerading as a "superfly") never exhibited. Interestingly though, DC did play with a variant of Cage's Hero for Hire schtick with Kurt Busiek's Power Company (quite loved that one, and hated that it never really caught on).

Still, if there was a single character or idea to steal, I'd say Cage. If you go back to his early 1970s roots, he's not just a Blaxploitation bandwagon character, he's very much a Siegel and Schuster Superman for The Black American Experience, as Kal-el was for The Assimilating Euro-Immigrant Experience. That's something that could still play today, nor does it strictly have to be about African-Americans. You could take almost any of the non-mainstream populations that draw conservative suspicions and put them in the role.

For example, on another thread, I posed an idea of doing a modern mashup of Steel, The Indestructible Man and The (original) Guardian. Take a US Marine of Color or immigrant origin, and basically replay Hank Heywood's origin, but have him take up the symbol and disguise of The Guardian as a signal to his people of just who he's supposed to be and who he's there to protect. Create a variant of The Newsboy Legion out of young activists that are trying to start business hustles of all kinds to help their families, avoid getting seduced into gang (or extremist) life, and generally help their community. Suicide Slum is the ideal setting, not just for the connection to Guardian, but to mirror how NYC's Five Points saw a rotating cast of different groups over the generations. My original idea was to make the character 2nd generation Syrian or Iranian, but any marginalized or oppressed population would work.

That would be a delicate one because of the topics it would have to take on. But it comes with some built-in minor name-recognition that's still fairly malleable as far as what the character is supposed to be about, and it's territory that DC has not often entered that aggressively.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I thought of The Immortal Men as the X-men analogue.

[j9ac9k]

DC has never really been able to replicate Marvel's success for "street level" heroes. (look at their repeated failed attempts at Vigilante) They're mostly dominated by the Bat family which feels like its own thing. So I guess if they were to "New Age" another Marvel property, I'd to see them give us a Daredevil type who operates in the streets, but faaaaar from Gotham.

[DrNewGod]

DC has never really been able to replicate Marvel's success for "street level" heroes. (look at their repeated failed attempts at Vigilante) They're mostly dominated by the Bat family which feels like its own thing. So I guess if they were to "New Age" another Marvel property, I'd to see them give us a Daredevil type who operates in the streets, but faaaaar from Gotham.

Philly and Detroit could use some help.

[Raijin]

Well Marvel has characters like Thor, Hercules and Ares. So it would be cool if DC did something with a folklore character. Paul Bunyan, perhaps? A hard-drinking, bearded giant travels around with an ox and a mythical ax, fighting against evil creatures from folklore.

[Korath]

Well Marvel has characters like Thor, Hercules and Ares. So it would be cool if DC did something with a folklore character. Paul Bunyan, perhaps? A hard-drinking, bearded giant travels around with an ox and a mythical ax, fighting against evil creatures from folklore.

Timber from The Immortal Men is said to have inspired the tale of Paul Bunyan, except that it was twisted over time, and her Blue Axe became the Blue Ox and Paul Bunyan was made male instead of female. But using folkloric characters or mythological ones could be cool, especially if D.C. chose some less mainstream than the Norse or Greek Pantheons. Or barring that, remembered that Greek, especially in Antiquity, aren't and weren't necessarily as white as Northern Europens peoples.

[Raijin]

Timber from The Immortal Men is said to have inspired the tale of Paul Bunyan, except that it was twisted over time, and her Blue Axe became the Blue Ox and Paul Bunyan was made male instead of female. But using folkloric characters or mythological ones could be cool, especially if D.C. chose some less mainstream than the Norse or Greek Pantheons. Or barring that, remembered that Greek, especially in Antiquity, aren't and weren't necessarily as white as Northern Europens peoples.

I always wondered why African mythology has rarely been touched on. I love Anansi.

[Killerbee911]

What major heroes are DC missing is Avengers is covered by JL and Nova corps is Green Lantern knock off so these are what I think are missing and what can be filled and since DC is rich universe I just used people in the universe

Antiheroes(Punisher,Deadpool,Venom and Wolverine.) The very nature of the top heroes in DC make very hard for Wolverine type and antiheroes to be accepted in the same way as Marvel. I know Silencer is supposed to fill the Punisher role but I think Red Hood if DC lets him go all out is better suited to fill the spot would be a great counterpoint for Batman. Harley Quinn is pretty much filling the deadpool role but Lobo also kinda fills that spot too. I don't think Wolverine can be replicated but maybe Timberwolf which we can that touch on later.

Luke Cage and Iron Man- (Steel). A two for one which I don't think DC really has either. I don't think Luke Cage can be replicated at this point but you put Steel in New York(just an example) have him protect the inner city you can some of story lines and feel of Cage but also you can have him running his own company and do the Iron Man thing as well

Captian America- (Commander Steel.) We kinda know why Captian America doesn't work in DC because DC has bigger strong faster more popular version in supes but I think use Commander Steel like Ultimates Cap America would work with something like Argus backing him.

X-Men and Guardians of Galaxy- (Legion of Superheroes) Another mash up of Marvel concepts to mix and use with DC property but it kinda works. I think DC cosmic universe could use a little refreshing I think you change the whole landscape by saying Cataclysmic event cause by something that is happening in our present time force the Legion of Superheroes to come back in time and set up in this era and presence puts them in conflict with Green Lantern corps, The Reach and every other major cosmic force. Saving the Universe even though it hates and fears you

[Korath]

I don't really see The Silencer as a Punisher rip-off, she's more akin to a Black Widow : former assassin trained by a secretive organization for evil purposes who makes a break. Of course, Honor's succeeded in where Natasha couldn't and she has a family now (which makes the whole damn book so great, IMHO).

[ed2962]

How about Woodgod?

He showed up in an issue of Marvel Premiere and a couple of issues of Marvel Team Up then faded away. He was a goat-man raised by a scientist couple and when couple died in an accident that poisoned most of the town he kind of roamed the town fighting evil scientists and whatnot.

[DrNewGod]

I don't really see The Silencer as a Punisher rip-off, she's more akin to a Black Widow : former assassin trained by a secretive organization for evil purposes who makes a break. Of course, Honor's succeeded in where Natasha couldn't and she has a family now (which makes the whole damn book so great, IMHO).

Vigilante (2) was DC's Punisher.

[Digifiend]

What major heroes are DC missing is Avengers is covered by JL and Nova corps is Green Lantern knock off so these are what I think are missing and what can be filled and since DC is rich universe I just used people in the universe

Nova's always been a GL knockoff. Hal Jordan and Richard Rider basically have the exact same origin story.

[ed2962]

The "problem" is that Marvel and DC already have characters share similar concepts or archetypes. You kinda have to go to the fringes. Like does DC have an equivalent of Adam Warlock? Maybe Capt Comet fits?

It's probably easier to do the reverse...think of DC concepts that Marvel should copy. DC has traditionally done a wider variety of genres and then different characters within those genres.