Superman Wonder Woman #22 Spoilers and Discussion

[Awonder]

No. She's supporting the man she loves and not giving up on him because it's obvious he's going thru a traumatic time...

The going getting tough is not an excuse to be an ### to those around you, especially those helping you. Clark's a belligerent child in an out of control temper tantrum - he's not just being a jerk to Diana, he's a danger to himself and others.

When Wonder Woman insists upon accompanying Superman to Louisiana as his Justice League teammate, the two violently attack the helicopter and its crew, snidely chide the soldiers for having the gall to defend themselves and do their duty, and abduct the bound prisoner while promising they’ll “try not to break him!”
http://comiconverse.com/review-super...-woman-22-5848

How does this make any sense? Ok, even if I buy Diana putting up with Clark's rude behavior to her as her being a very patient girlfriend, 'hey, let's attack those transporting Parasite so when can attack him while he's chained up' is just Diana being a good teammate? Clark's the one that needs to have some sense smacked into him.

I'm guessing S now stands for selfish.

I was thinking S is for stupid, but selfish works well, too.

Pretty much agree. He's failing all over the place right now. But its like the question Thomas asks Bruce in Batman Begins. "Why do we fall?" He'll get back up and be the boss he usually is again. And by then either he'll have the chance to make things right with Diana, or he will have missed that chance. But the high likelihood it'll be scenario A.

I'm guessing the plan is to try for A) "make things right," but given the lack of quality on this part of the shallow spectacle of a story, I seriously doubt they can do a good job of actually making things right. It'll be some generic apology, Diana will forgive, and sweep it under the rug. The idea of some bumps in the relationship road isn't bad, but the execution is just so poor I have no hope for it.

This title should be so much better.

[brettc1]

I'm guessing as far as the scene with the guards on the helicopter is concerned, it's bring your own context.

If you are liking the book/story/characters, then the scene plays like this [and probably what the writers had in mind...sorry, I can't insert the video here]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2c...005_shortfilms

Oh yeah, look at Superman and Wonder Woman's snappy banter as they totally overwhelm the soldiers. Cue laughter.

The problem is

[1] if you aren't enjoying the book/story/characters, and/or

[2] the guard in Serenity is shown as a hapless clown paid to keep and aye on the money of the villainous corporate overlords, as opposed to here where the soldiers are supposed to be guys risking their lives to transport a deadly murdering killer to a place where he will be safely contained.

Two people just turn up and want to release a homicidal maniac? No, you DON'T just meekly surrender no matter who they look like. Your supposed to be the people keeping the world safe, not some guy who isn't paid enough to risk his life to protect someone else's money.

[Majesty]

The going getting tough is not an excuse to be an ### to those around you, especially those helping you. Clark's a belligerent child in an out of control temper tantrum - he's not just being a jerk to Diana, he's a danger to himself and others.



How does this make any sense? Ok, even if I buy Diana putting up with Clark's rude behavior to her as her being a very patient girlfriend, 'hey, let's attack those transporting Parasite so when can attack him while he's chained up' is just Diana being a good teammate? Clark's the one that needs to have some sense smacked into him.



I was thinking S is for stupid, but selfish works well, too.



I'm guessing the plan is to try for A) "make things right," but given the lack of quality on this part of the shallow spectacle of a story, I seriously doubt they can do a good job of actually making things right. It'll be some generic apology, Diana will forgive, and sweep it under the rug. The idea of some bumps in the relationship road isn't bad, but the execution is just so poor I have no hope for it.

This title should be so much better.

This in a nutshell.

[bholderman]

Pretty much agree. He's failing all over the place right now. But its like the question Thomas asks Bruce in Batman Begins. "Why do we fall?" He'll get back up and be the boss he usually is again. And by then either he'll have the chance to make things right with Diana, or he will have missed that chance. But the high likelihood it'll be scenario A.

There's a lot for me in this quote. While I realize Superman is currently being written by 4 different writers (Action, Superman, SMWW,SMBM) and is probably the source of all the variation, your quote of "He's falling all over the place right now," is very impactful. After having these powers all his life, desparation to get them back probably would lead to some bad choices along the way. While getting his powers back is a certainty, I wold like to see a writer and artist handle that moment when Clark would have to accept that they aren't coming back. It would be a heart wrenching adagio of acceptance that I would like to see written.

But then again, I want the cape, tights and red underwear back.

[Tayswift]

The going getting tough is not an excuse to be an ### to those around you, especially those helping you. Clark's a belligerent child in an out of control temper tantrum - he's not just being a jerk to Diana, he's a danger to himself and others.

agree, superman is out of control

How does this make any sense? Ok, even if I buy Diana putting up with Clark's rude behavior to her as her being a very patient girlfriend, 'hey, let's attack those transporting Parasite so when can attack him while he's chained up' is just Diana being a good teammate? Clark's the one that needs to have some sense smacked into him.

so wonder woman is putting up with clark behaviour? people said on another thread that if was WW putting up with Orion would be demeaning, but with clark they want them to keep boing a couple. seems hipocrite to me.
WW should never put up with any bad behavior, specially a guy that should acts like superman.
she helped him do a violent assault and she assault many soldiers doing a hard job, risking their lives to keep parasite under control. WW sinked to a new low

I was thinking S is for stupid, but selfish works well, too.

superstupid or superjerk

I'm guessing the plan is to try for A) "make things right," but given the lack of quality on this part of the shallow spectacle of a story, I seriously doubt they can do a good job of actually making things right. It'll be some generic apology, Diana will forgive, and sweep it under the rug. The idea of some bumps in the relationship road isn't bad, but the execution is just so poor I have no hope for it.

some bumps, not a damn rollercoaster

The drama has to come from somewhere, and the problem here is that Superman has several books to tell it in. It's a Superman story and Superfans aren't going to be happy with Wonder Woman getting equal billing in each and every one of those books.

Therefore logically they need a reason for Diana NOT be equally involved. They seem to have decided to go with "Clark pushed her away."

It's basically what a lot of folks feared and predicted from the outset - that Wonder Woman would get second rate service as Superman's girlfriend.

It's nice for some folks to say that Superman is being the one written badly, but how badly is Wonder Woman being written as the one chasing after a guy this stupid.

"You can't help me Diana - you are more powerful but I don't want you involved - stay away I want to keep you pure - you saved my friends but didn't tell me - how can I trust you now after you saved my friends and stopped me killing myself..."

Oh gods Diana, please just dump his ass and tell Steve you made a huge mistake.

WTH this is just too awful

[friendly-fire-press]

The going getting tough is not an excuse to be an ### to those around you, especially those helping you. Clark's a belligerent child in an out of control temper tantrum - he's not just being a jerk to Diana, he's a danger to himself and others.

True. For the record, if you'll go back and re-read the interaction I was having you'll notice that I wasn't defending Clark's bad attitude ... I was defending Diana's noble actions. The poster I was debating was so outraged by the recent issue, he/she described Diana as "an obsessive girlfriend" and even compared her to a dog. I thought this was not only inaccurate but also way out of line which is why I leaped to Diana's defense

My statements had nothing to do with defending Clark. They had everything to do with defending Diana.

[friendly-fire-press]

Folks seem to love to quote Obi-Wan to me LOL

I can't imagine why lol

The very reason the Jedi practice detachment is because romantic love by its nature has the capacity to be all consuming. You can't do it a little bit. That kind of passion IS an absolute, which is precisely why the Jedi shy away from it.

Granted. Perhaps that could suggest something of Clark's questionable actions (almost in an Anakin Skywalker type of way) ... his absolute love for Diana could be what is driving him further into darkness and isolation with uncharacteristic behaviour and dishonest statements (out of fear of losing her)

Well somebody certsinly should, but it seems his super hearing has gone the way of the rest of his powers. Might have something to do with having his head jammed so far up his own...

And can I just say how spectacularly idiotic it is that Clark never once seems to consider how this is affecting Diana. She pushed Steve out of the JL because she couldn't bear to see him vulnerable, and flat out told him she was terrified by seeing how Deadshot chewed him up. But he never stops to try and help her deal with her personal feelings about his situation, even after he almost kills himself.

I'm guessing S now stands for selfish.

I would've thought you would have nominated Steve Trevor by now. He seems like an ideal candidate to slap some sense into Clark and tell him to pull his head in and realise how lucky he is to have Diana in his life. Who knows? Trevor could possibly be the one to remind Clark how much he loves Diana and should therefore be treating her better? Trevor could potentially play a central role in getting the ultimate power couple back together? That could make for some interesting Drama

[Awonder]

True. For the record, if you'll go back and re-read the interaction I was having you'll notice that I wasn't defending Clark's bad attitude ... I was defending Diana's noble actions. The poster I was debating was so outraged by the recent issue, he/she described Diana as "an obsessive girlfriend" and even compared her to a dog. I thought this was not only inaccurate but also way out of line which is why I leaped to Diana's defense

My statements had nothing to do with defending Clark. They had everything to do with defending Diana.

I understand that you are defending Diana and not defending Clark. But, the two are intertwined as Diana's actions are based on Clark's.

Diana putting her personal feelings aside to stand by Superman as a teammate sounds good. But, he goes off to attack a government helicopter, and she just unquestionably goes along to help out? It doesn't make any sense; it's just plot-forced stupidity for the spectacle of it. So, she's not just being loyal and supportive to someone going through a tough time, she's a brain-dead idiot just following along.

It may have some interesting ideas, but it's just not written well.

[Tayswift]

I understand that you are defending Diana and not defending Clark. But, the two are intertwined as Diana's actions are based on Clark's.

Diana putting her personal feelings aside to stand by Superman as a teammate sounds good. But, he goes off to attack a government helicopter, and she just unquestionably goes along to help out? It doesn't make any sense; it's just plot-forced stupidity for the spectacle of it. So, she's not just being loyal and supportive to someone going through a tough time, she's a brain-dead idiot just following along.

It may have some interesting ideas, but it's just not written well.

she still look like a obssessive girlfriend, not like a JL teamate. she is just bad as him is.it's some paper towns crap here

I can't imagine why lol



Granted. Perhaps that could suggest something of Clark's questionable actions (almost in an Anakin Skywalker type of way) ... his absolute love for Diana could be what is driving him further into darkness and isolation with uncharacteristic behaviour and dishonest statements (out of fear of losing her)

this is some sick unhealthy love for sure

I would've thought you would have nominated Steve Trevor by now. He seems like an ideal candidate to slap some sense into Clark and tell him to pull his head in and realise how lucky he is to have Diana in his life. Who knows? Trevor could possibly be the one to remind Clark how much he loves Diana and should therefore be treating her better? Trevor could potentially play a central role in getting the ultimate power couple back together? That could make for some interesting Drama

trevor is not a complete idiot, superman just kissed wonder woman while he was hurt at the hospital. if superman can't handle wonder woman at his worse he doesn't deserve her at his best.

ultimate power couple? u mean lois and clark, maybe trevor will

[friendly-fire-press]

I understand that you are defending Diana and not defending Clark. But, the two are intertwined as Diana's actions are based on Clark's.

Hmmm. I'm don't think they're necessarily "based on Clark's" ... I think they're more of a reaction or response to Clark's

Diana putting her personal feelings aside to stand by Superman as a teammate sounds good. But, he goes off to attack a government helicopter, and she just unquestionably goes along to help out? It doesn't make any sense; it's just plot-forced stupidity for the spectacle of it. So, she's not just being loyal and supportive to someone going through a tough time, she's a brain-dead idiot just following along.

It may have some interesting ideas, but it's just not written well.

Oh well. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Agree to disagree.

[friendly-fire-press]

this is some sick unhealthy love for sure

No conflict, no drama. That's how storytelling works. (btw 'sick' and 'unhealthy' are the same thing ... you're unnecessarily repeating yourself)

trevor is not a complete idiot, superman just kissed wonder woman while he was hurt at the hospital. if superman can't handle wonder woman at his worse he doesn't deserve her at his best.

With respect, this statement is a bit jumbled and incoherent. It's a bit tricky to decipher what your trying to say -- other than you don't like SMWW ... Is that all your trying to say or are you trying to make any other point(s)?

ultimate power couple? u mean lois and clark,

Uh ... No, I don't. To the best of my knowledge, Superman and Wonder Woman are the only DC couple to have been officially described as the 'ultimate power couple'. If I'm wrong, please feel free to prove it. And btw comparing couples isn't really what this thread is about, it's a separate discussion altogether; to try and change the subject of a thread is tantamount to trolling.

maybe trevor will

Will what? Are you referring to the idea I suggested to Brettc1 or do you mean something else?

[brettc1]

Granted. Perhaps that could suggest something of Clark's questionable actions (almost in an Anakin Skywalker type of way) ... his absolute love for Diana could be what is driving him further into darkness and isolation with uncharacteristic behavior and dishonest statements (out of fear of losing her)

Probably should hope they are not following the Anakin Skywalker model, because by the end of the prequels I was ready to kill that jerk with an axe.

I would've thought you would have nominated Steve Trevor by now. He seems like an ideal candidate to slap some sense into Clark and tell him to pull his head in and realise how lucky he is to have Diana in his life. Who knows? Trevor could possibly be the one to remind Clark how much he loves Diana and should therefore be treating her better? Trevor could potentially play a central role in getting the ultimate power couple back together? That could make for some interesting Drama

Not exactly my ideal scenario, but that WOULD be awesome!

And of course something to get mentioned later on when they break up for real and she realizes that Steve will always put her first no matter what

[friendly-fire-press]

Probably should hope they are not following the Anakin Skywalker model, because by the end of the prequels I was ready to kill that jerk with an axe.

Yeah. Don't get me wrong. I said "almost" not "exactly". I'm just saying if this spiritual journey he's undergoing leads him to discover he's more of a loner than anything else then that's a story I could get behind, provided it's well written and drawn -- and it would also have to apply not just to Diana but to all potential love interests for it to be really cool and intriguing IMO. Maybe that could even work for Diana too? Who knows? Maybe, in that regard, superheroes are a little bit like Jedi Knights?

Getting back to fundamentals, however, back when you said:

If you love someone, you know. If you aren't sure, you don't.

I think in serialized fiction, and even fiction in general, nothing is quite that black and white. (Just off the top of my head, There have been some episodes of The Simpsons where Homer and/or Marge have had second thoughts, regarding their feelings for their significant other -- and yet they're still in love and still together. That's one example, anyway, such as it is)
Furthermore, when SMWW 22 was previewed during the Convergence event, Clark's original statement was "I don't love you anymore" that has now been changed to "I don't know if I love you anymore" ... if both those statements were exactly the same thing, it never would have been changed at all.

Not exactly my ideal scenario, but that WOULD be awesome!

And of course something to get mentioned later on when they break up for real and she realizes that Steve will always put her first no matter what

Hmmm. Maybe one day we might be able to come up with some sort of compromise (regarding ideal scenarios) ... one day

[brettc1]

Hmmm. Maybe one day we might be able to come up with some sort of compromise (regarding ideal scenarios) ... one day

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Last Son of Krypton]

Compromise? As in the hypothetical scenario where Trevor kills Superman and Steve's soul ends up in Clark's body bringing him back to life and merging the two character?