"Hyperion" Takes Flight At Marvel With Wendig & Virella

[Kieran_Frost]

I don't understand this newer readers obsession with making every new comics series about a person sexuality that's popped up over the last few years! Who cares who the lead character wants to date! Let's just concentrate on creating superbly crafted stories. When I read Spider-man I don't need to know who he is attracted to! People need to stop looking to fictional characters as their role models. There are plenty of great real life human beings to look to for inspiration! Leave a persons sexual preference out of my comic book stories!

As others have said, you couldn't have picked a worst character to use as an example of "not focusing on romance." Maybe Iron Man would have been a slightly worse choice, but not by much.

I agree, comic books used to be about fun and adventure. Unfortunately, in today's hyper-sexualized society that is not the case.

Classic Peter Parker/Gwen, Parker/MJ, Parker/Black Cat, Sue/Reed, Sue/Namor, Johnny/every woman, Scott/Jean, Logan/Jean, Havok/Lorne, Wanda/Vision, Wasp/Black Knight/Swordsman, Wasp/Pym, Hulk/Betty, Thor/Jane, Cap/Sharon all say hi.

White or heterosexual discrimination doesn't exists. Deal with it. Discrimination doesn't mean someone saying "this is a straight white character so I won't read it". Discrimination means not having the same rights and possibilities than the dominants class has. If someone can't get married because of his sexual inclinations, then is discriminated. If someone get shot because it's running and it's black then he could be a criminal—while a white running is just someone who cares about health—is discriminated. And so on.

You have a very simplistic and naive view of very complex and dramatic issues, yet you talk like you understand everything better than the other people.

Firstly, AMAZING post! Secondly, as another poster said earlier (and it's worth echoing) if we were prejudice against reading str8 or white characters, none of us would be on here talking about Marvel, because we wouldn't have any comics to read. :P

[Trident]

White or heterosexual discrimination doesn't exists. Deal with it.

Discrimination can happen to anyone it's beyond unknowing to believe some maybe immune. Theres truth that some are not as affected as others, in certain place/instances/ect. but it does not mean that it doesn't happen at all.

Ideally, in a perfect world, you'd be completely right and the character would be judged on its own merit.
But it's not the case of the world we are living in. And given how poorly represented were a lot of groups up until a few years ago (and some still are) in mainstream media, can you really blame some people for having this kind of criteria when deciding whether or not picking up a title is worth it?
It comes down to "why" someone would be interested in the character. Personally, Hyperion's back story and struggle during Hickman's run made him very sympathetic to me, that's why I'll be happy to follow his journey in nu616.
His sexual orientation, his skin color, his gender or religious background if he has any, are of no importance to me. It's not what will make him a more compelling/less compelling character IMO.
But I can understand people who'll start to follow said journey for those reasons, simply because of how relatable it makes the character to them, or for the simple symbolism of having a character with those traits being on the spotlight.
I don't agree with such angle, but I understand it.

I understand what your trying to say. But in today's world all titles are subject to quick and unbiased cancelations. Being a POC or LGTB are not the only ones subjected it to it. Therefore the argument becomes weak if someone chooses to get a book because they are LGTB just as it does if they are not.

If one can make a decision based on certain criteria then another can do the same without being subjected to repercussions or unnecessary labeling/ridicule. They can't have it both ways.

You have the money and you are interested pick up the title. The End.

[shgs]

There actually is no difference.

Actually you are completely wrong. Kieren is not refusing to read Hyperion on the grounds that he is a straight character. As he has said he is perfectly happy to read straight characters (and does so). The only reason he wouldn't pick up Hyperion unless he were gay is simply because, as it stands, there aren't enough things about the book that pique his interest to the point where he is willing to pay money for it. The character being gay would tip him over that point because that is something he is especially interested in reading about. Your hypothetical bigot, on the other hand, is flat out refusing to buy the book if in features a gay lead. No matter how many things about the book otherwise pique his interest, he still wouldn't buy the book if the character was gay. Nor would he buy any other book featuring a gay character. That is the like for like comparison, and they are by no means exactly equivalent.

[Trident]

Actually you are completely wrong. Kieren is not refusing to read Hyperion on the grounds that he is a straight character. As he has said he is perfectly happy to read straight characters (and does so). The only reason he wouldn't pick up Hyperion unless he were gay is simply because, as it stands, there aren't enough things about the book that pique his interest to the point where he is willing to pay money for it. The character being gay would tip him over that point because that is something he is especially interested in reading about. Your hypothetical bigot, on the other hand, is flat out refusing to buy the book if in features a gay lead. No matter how many things about the book otherwise pique his interest, he still wouldn't buy the book if the character was gay. Nor would he buy any other book featuring a gay character. That is the like for like comparison, and they are by no means exactly equivalent.

No I'm not. If someone was interested in this book, found out he was gay and then they stopped getting the book or showed they where upset by it several on this forum would be giving the poster a hell of a lot of grief. That person is probably not a homophobe but by the end of the discussion they would have wrote him off as one. Despite the fact that he would be fine reading another character as LGTB. There isn't any difference here if the person is doing the reverse.

There are several "excuses" being given but when you cut through it turns out it is the same thing.

[Kieran_Frost]

Actually you are completely wrong. Kieren is not refusing to read Hyperion on the grounds that he is a straight character. As he has said he is perfectly happy to read straight characters (and does so). The only reason he wouldn't pick up Hyperion unless he were gay is simply because, as it stands, there aren't enough things about the book that pique his interest to the point where he is willing to pay money for it. The character being gay would tip him over that point because that is something he is especially interested in reading about. Your hypothetical bigot, on the other hand, is flat out refusing to buy the book if in features a gay lead. No matter how many things about the book otherwise pique his interest, he still wouldn't buy the book if the character was gay. Nor would he buy any other book featuring a gay character. That is the like for like comparison, and they are by no means exactly equivalent.

Thank you good sir; your post is full of win

No I'm not. If someone was interested in this book, found out he was gay and then they stopped getting the book or showed they where upset by it several on this forum would be giving the poster a hell of a lot of grief. That person is probably not a homophobe but by the end of the discussion they would have wrote him off as one. Despite the fact that he would be fine reading another character as LGTB. There isn't any difference here if the person is doing the reverse.

There are several "excuses" being given but when you cut through it turns out it is the same thing.

Wrong; if you stop reading a comic solely because the lead is gay you (figurative you) are a homophobe. Period.

[shgs]

No I'm not. If someone was interested in this book, found out he was gay and then they stopped getting the book or showed they where upset by it several on this forum would be giving the poster a hell of a lot of grief. That person is probably not a homophobe but by the end of the discussion they would have wrote him off as one. Despite the fact that he would be fine reading another character as LGTB. There isn't any difference here if the person is doing the reverse.

There are several "excuses" being given but when you cut through it turns out it is the same thing.

Yes of course they would be considered homophobic if they stopped buying the comic because the character was gay. How is objecting to reading about gay people, not homophobic?

And again it is not a like-for-like comparison. Kieran is not saying he was interested in this book until he found out the character was straight. He is saying he isn't sufficiently interested in the book to buy it. He is not saying he won't buy a book with a straight lead, in fact he is already reading several.

[Trident]

Thank you good sir; your post is full of win


Wrong; if you stop reading a comic solely because the lead is gay you (figurative you) are a homophobe. Period.

Not according to you:

Secondly, people pick up a comic for a great many reasons. For me visuals matter a lot (his costumes cool, as is Nightmask; I was instantly drawn to the character because of it). But budget is a very understandable factor. I have money to buy the comics I want, and little more to give some comics a chance. I can't afford to try everything. *edit for relevance* Why would I spend money on a comic not giving me what I want?

[Mic1402]

White or heterosexual discrimination doesn't exists. Deal with it. Discrimination doesn't mean someone saying "this is a straight white character so I won't read it".

Uh excuse me? America does not equal the world. The rest of the world has various different issues. In some of those "whites" are discriminated against, i mean what is "white" anyway? is a polish person white? I will grant you that heterosexual discrimination is rare to no-existent however. But what is with this drawing in of all these unrelated issues, what do they have to do with the topic at hand? Plus i don't think trident was claiming that straight white male characters were being discriminated against. i think he is pointing out the apparent contradiction between some of the things certain posters are saying.

On the topic at hand, i am interested in Hyperion however i do wonder if the launching of 60+ books will mean ones like this will get overshadowed.

[ed2962]

This is an odd argument. We simply don't live in a world where comic book fans say "I refuse to read a title starring a straight person."

[Trident]

Uh excuse me? America does not equal the world. The rest of the world has various different issues. In some of those "whites" are discriminated against, i mean what is "white" anyway? is a polish person white? I will grant you that heterosexual discrimination is rare to no-existent however. But what is with this drawing in of all these unrelated issues, what do they have to do with the topic at hand? Plus i don't think trident was claiming that straight white male characters were being discriminated against. i think he is pointing out the apparent contradiction between some of the things certain posters are saying.

On the topic at hand, i am interested in Hyperion however i do wonder if the launching of 60+ books will mean ones like this will get overshadowed.

Someone gets it! Good post.

[The Negative Zone]

White or heterosexual discrimination doesn't exists. Deal with it.

Discrimination has happened to every race on the planet.

[penthotal]

I would be really curious to know a few examples of documents cases of white heterosexual discrimination in the contemporary society, after all, if this phenomenon exists, it has to happen, it can't be only in your mind right? Tell us of some guy shot because white, or fired because gay. Young heterosexuals bullied because of their sexual orientation. People almost systematically excluded by certain type of jobs because they are caucasian.

Tell us about cases of rights negated to white people, or heterosexual people in general. Can you list such examples? Otherwise, what you are talking about? Semantics? Oh yes, sure, everyone could be discriminated. Sadly, this doesn't mean anything. It's like your stance is "potentially, anything possible could happen".

[penthotal]

Uh excuse me? America does not equal the world. The rest of the world has various different issues. In some of those "whites" are discriminated against, i mean what is "white" anyway

I am obviously talking about Western countries here. USA, Canada, Europe. Publisher is american, characters are american, creators are american, readers are american, people discussing on this forum mainly form western countries. In our nations white or heterosexual discrimination doesn't exists, as I said. So american people criticizing american people who choose to read a character because the character makes them feel represented in some way in a society that often is against them, he is clearly talking out of his ass don't you think? If what I am looking for is character that represents me, that I can feel connected to (an experience that probably self-centeded white heterosexuals ignore, because they are over represented), and I discover that character it's not what I thought, I am not intolerant because I choose not to read his book. Saying "I would like to read about a gay character because I am gay" it's totally different than saying "I don't want to read an heterosexual character". It's incredible that something so clear should be explained, don't you think?

[Reality]

Before I begin, let it be known I am a gay man.

White or heterosexual discrimination doesn't exists. Deal with it. Discrimination doesn't mean someone saying "this is a straight white character so I won't read it". Discrimination means not having the same rights and possibilities than the dominants class has. If someone can't get married because of his sexual inclinations, then is discriminated. If someone get shot because it's running and it's black then he could be a criminal—while a white running is just someone who cares about health—is discriminated. And so on.

You have a very simplistic and naive view of very complex and dramatic issues, yet you talk like you understand everything better than the other people.

discrimination
noun: discrimination; plural noun: discriminations
1. the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.
"victims of racial discrimination"
synonyms: prejudice, bias, bigotry, intolerance, narrow-mindedness, unfairness, inequity, favouritism, one-sidedness, partisanship;
antonyms: impartiality
2. recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another.
"discrimination between right and wrong"
synonyms: differentiation, distinction, telling the difference
"the discrimination between right and wrong"
the ability to judge what is of high quality; good judgement or taste.
"those who could afford to buy showed little taste or discrimination"
synonyms: discernment, judgement, perception, perceptiveness, perspicacity, acumen, astuteness, shrewdness, judiciousness, insight, subtlety;
PSYCHOLOGY
the ability to distinguish between different stimuli.
"discrimination learning"

Now, in remembering that the world is not America and is generally made up of less mixed ethnic populations than America, it becomes impossible for there to NOT be discrimination against white or hererosexual people. Just as it's impossible for any other groups to not to face any discrimination, also. Even though you take the view (as I do) that the ruling class IS actively making life worse for those they dominate, it's simply not true that the decisive factor in their domination ISN'T ethnicity or the (scientifically disproven concept of) race or sexuality or even sex.

It's wealth and the social connections that come with it. Plain and simple. By your definition of discrimination, only rich people can't be discriminated against. Which is only partially ture- everyone hates them, but they're far more powerful and so it means little to them as a group.

Whereas what you were saying is that white and straight people as groups have no right to equal treatment because of the color of their skin or the proclivities of their loins. Which is insanely, irrefutably discriminatory.

Firstly, AMAZING post! Secondly, as another poster said earlier (and it's worth echoing) if we were prejudice against reading str8 or white characters, none of us would be on here talking about Marvel, because we wouldn't have any comics to read. :P

Yeah, if anyone here hated those groups in any meaningful way, they wouldn't be reading anything, let alone comics! They're called the majority for a reason.

Yes of course they would be considered homophobic if they stopped buying the comic because the character was gay. How is objecting to reading about gay people, not homophobic?

And again it is not a like-for-like comparison. Kieran is not saying he was interested in this book until he found out the character was straight. He is saying he isn't sufficiently interested in the book to buy it. He is not saying he won't buy a book with a straight lead, in fact he is already reading several.

I can see someone just being bored by it. Boredom is the most valid reason not to engage with a work of fiction, of course. Or it just not being something that adds interest to them. But that's in relation to a book that they haven't read- if they read a book for a while and enjoyed it and then quite because the main character was revealed to be gay, either that doesn't make sense or they're homophobes.

[Reality]

Someone gets it! Good post.

I didn't think it was that confusing, personally. But some people have difficulty transferring concepts between subjects.

Discrimination has happened to every race on the planet.

Fun fact, the word "slave" comes from "Slav." As in the major ethnic group making up the people of Slovakia. Which is whiter than a plastic surgeon's teeth.