Superman II: Death of the Phantom Zone Criminals or Capture?

[Kid A]

For the anti-killing crowd, wouldn't it be a lot easier to just condemn the scenes in Superman II and praise the Donner cut for fixing the killing scenes rather than trying to jump through hoops of logic to try to convince everyone it didn't happen?

[Powerboy]

It never occurred to me that he might have sent them to the Phantom Zone. I really did not think he killed them but there was a lingering doubt, however small. When Superman threw him, I thought he hit that ice wall with tremendous force for having no powers, followed by the fall. But that was more the lack of credulity of the things people can take in fiction. Still, as you said, Superman did crush the hand of a helpless opponent (revenge), slam him into a wall extremely hard (revenge) and then go do a spin on the guy that beat him up earlier (revenge).

I was glad for the first network television showing with Zod and company alive and being taken into custody.

[The Beast]

For the anti-killing crowd, wouldn't it be a lot easier to just condemn the scenes in Superman II and praise the Donner cut for fixing the killing scenes rather than trying to jump through hoops of logic to try to convince everyone it didn't happen?

Donner didn't fix the killing scene. After the villains fell to their death, Superman blasted the Fortress with heat vision and it exploded. There were no police escorting the villains away; that's a deleted scene on the Donner cut DVD.

Now, Superman did un-kill the Zoners by turning back time which restored the Phantom Zone but that's even more messed up. Then, with the time stream restored and all the evil undone, Superman still went to the diner and beat Rocky senseless even tho they never met before that from Rocky's perspective.

I'm not sure whose version is a bigger mess.

[Biff Pow!]

The crevasse was full of fog, I just assumed they fell into icy waters below the fortress. It was so obvious Superman could just go fish them out there was no need to show it.

But the scene definitely seems to be some sort of geek rorschach test.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

The crevasse was full of fog, I just assumed they fell into icy waters below the fortress. It was so obvious Superman could just go fish them out there was no need to show it.

You ever spent much time in the water at the North Pole? It tends not to work out so well for non-invulnerable people.

[Biff Pow!]

You ever spent much time in the water at the North Pole?

Yes, but it was under a heated alien fortress, so I was cold but fine.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

Yes, but it was under a heated alien fortress, so I was cold but fine.

Well, I'm glad you're okay.

[dancj]

lol yup.

But be careful...they'll try to convince you that he didn't kill Nuclear Man, either! Watch, it'll happen...

IIRC the official (and IMO faulty) line is that one doesn't count because he was an artificial being.

[Lexrules]

Donner didn't fix the killing scene. After the villains fell to their death, Superman blasted the Fortress with heat vision and it exploded. There were no police escorting the villains away; that's a deleted scene on the Donner cut DVD.

Now, Superman did un-kill the Zoners by turning back time which restored the Phantom Zone but that's even more messed up. Then, with the time stream restored and all the evil undone, Superman still went to the diner and beat Rocky senseless even tho they never met before that from Rocky's perspective.

I'm not sure whose version is a bigger mess.

Sometimes bullies just need to be beat up anyway.

[The Darknight Detective]

This is the way to look at it: the theatrical version and Donner cut definitely show Superman (with help from Lois) either killing the Phantom Zone criminals or at least leaving them in very bad, bad, bad, BAD shape. However, the Superman II TV universe unequivocally has the evil Kryptonians living to fight another day. With that said, the TV universe have to be taken with a grain of salt since it was edited for kiddie viewing. It's similar to the Scarface TV universe, where the characters have an inexplicable inability to swear properly.

[Clark_Kent]

Someone mentioned there could have been slides in the holes.....really? If Superman's intention was to arrest Zod, he wouldn't have launched him into a wall directly over a pit. He could have brushed him aside, laughed in his face, make out with Lois - literally anything, but tossing him at a wall above a pit.

As has been pointed out, film schools teach that the finished product is the only product. Everything intended to be included is in the film that goes to theaters. TV versions simply don't count. Not because "I say so", but because it's the truth. They simply don't.

[dancj]

Not because "I say so", but because it's the truth. They simply don't.

That sounds very much like "because I say so" to me.

[The Darknight Detective]

That sounds very much like "because I say so" to me.

Is there a TV version that is considered more important by the critics than the theatrical version, though? If there is, I can't think of it.

[JackDaw]

Is there a TV version that is considered more important by the critics than the theatrical version, though? If there is, I can't think of it.

Programs in general, or super heroes specifically?

In programs in general, there's a stack of stuff where original TV series is more highly acclaimed than film versions. Dr Who, Porridge, Simpsons, etc.

Not sure on general opinion on super hero films. Have to admit that for some reason most super hero films bore me...so personally I prefer Smallville and Lois and Clark TV series to any of the Superman films.

[The Darknight Detective]

Programs in general, or super heroes specifically?

In programs in general, there's a stack of stuff where original TV series is more highly acclaimed than film versions. Dr Who, Porridge, Simpsons, etc.

Not sure on general opinion on super hero films. Have to admit that for some reason most super hero films bore me...so personally I prefer Smallville and Lois and Clark TV series to any of the Superman films.

What I meant was a TV-edited version of a movie being acclaimed more than the original version seen in the theaters.