The Minority Report! Diversity In The MU.

[Kasper Cole]

Bigotry should be called out no matter what.
I know I've gotten into plenty fistfights with extended family and other Chicanos for telling them to cut the racist or homophobic crap.

As minorities (really hate that term) we have a responsibility to rise above what our people have been subjected to and not do the same.

I agree with this.

My comments were more about people OUTSIDE of particular groups needing to be mindful of criticisms of those groups. We all have implicit bias' and sometimes they bleed into criticisms and do more harm than good.

[Alvarez]

I hate that term too, which is why I try to put it in quotes whenever possible.

We aren't the "minority" -- we are the majority and it's important to remember that.

Everything else you've said is spot on -- I'm writing a book on racism in the modern era ("Modus") and it's a much more complex issue than most people realize because most people are so comfortable -- and even casual -- in their ignorance.

The assumption that if you are black or latino that you must come from the "ghetto" and love rap and hate rock... the assumption that if you are Asian you must be good in school but bad with women... the assumption that if you are white male then you automatically part of the problem rather than a potential ally... and those are just the more obvious "stereotypes".

There are plenty of others that we witness daily but simply shrug off due to how often they happen (cops shining lights at me at night and then turning around to question whether I actually live in my "gentrified" Hollywood neighborhood), as if we not only accept such behavior but have now come to expect it.

It's one of those things that you can fight on a personal level whenever possible, granted, but in reality racism is institutionalized and entrenched into nearly every aspect of (American) society.

A concentrated effort from all concerned is required and in my opinion, media such as comic books, videogames and movies are key to changing the status quo.

I have no problem with televising the revolution -- it needs to be seen by as many people as possible for the greatest effect possible.

Wow, I'll have to check that out once it's published.
Keep me posted.

A lot of what you said is echoed in a book called Childhood Indians by Dr. Raul Chavez.
It primarily focuses on the indigenous people but goes into the concept of the White (sub)Conscience.
Basically it expands on institutionalized racism and how it applies to media.

Fascinating stuff.

[aja_christopher]

Wow, I'll have to check that out once it's published.
Keep me posted.

A lot of what you said is echoed in a book called Childhood Indians by Dr. Raul Chavez.
It primarily focuses on the indigenous people but goes into the concept of the White (sub)Conscience.
Basically it expands on institutionalized racism and how it applies to media.

Fascinating stuff.

I'll check that out -- or at least use the 'net to do some research on it.

The first three chapters of "Modus" are in the second link in my sig, along with a full length novella called "Aquarius" that features a black lead character (Ajani - guitar, vocals) and his Mexican best friend (Antonio - drums) starting a band in Hollywood with a White/Filipino girl (Elise - guitar, violin) and a white guy (Friday - bass).

I didn't write much about race in that book because that was the point -- none of the characters cared about "race" so it was never an issue. I started working on "Modus" specifically to address the overall subtlety of modern racism -- but it's primarily a continuation of an ongoing graphic novel called "Kerouac Black" I wrote out about a decade ago but never published.

It goes from character to character every four issues and I finished a good 16 issues of it to date before transitioning the characters into "book" format. "Solace" is a semi-continuation of my graphic novel "Kerouac Black": "Modus" is the sequel, and "Aqarius" is the prequel. All of the characters live in a shared universe and often appear in each others books throughout the series.

The next book ("Indigo") will be about Indigo, a bisexual Thai-Mexican "scene" girl who transitions to adulthood (and back to religion) in drug-addled Hollywood, and the next ("Tao") about her best friend Karina, a young African-American who simultaneously grapples with her growing sense of atheism and isolation within her strongly Christian family.

If you're interested in that sort of thing, you might also want to check out my "Primus" link as well. It's a comic book with a multi-racial cast that are also from different periods in history, both past and future. I'm working on illustrating that currently, along with finishing "Modus" and completing the soundtrack for "Aquarius".

I play guitar -- mostly stuff like Soundgarden, Nirvana, The Smashing Pumpkins, Pantera, The Cure and the like and I hope to animate Aquarius one day and include the soundtrack as well. All of the music has been composed and recorded -- I'm just finishing up the lyrics, which is a nice change from writing books.

"Modus" is challenging to write because halfway in, I am forcing the character (via an outside editor) to start being completely honest in his journal focusing on "race and sex" in Los Angeles and its hard not to censor your character when you know that people often take the views and/or experiences of main characters to be those of the author.

[Alvarez]

I'll check that out -- or at least use the 'net to do some research on it.

The first three chapters of "Modus" are in the second link in my sig, along with a full length novella called "Aquarius" that features a black lead character (Ajani - guitar, vocals) and his Mexican best friend (Antonio - drums) starting a band in Hollywood with a White/Filipino girl (Elise - guitar, violin) and a white guy (Friday - bass).

I didn't write much about race in that book because that was the point -- none of the characters cared about "race" so it was never an issue. I started working on "Modus" right after the election of Obama -- it's a continuation of an ongoing graphic novel called "Kerouac Black" I wrote out about a decade ago but never published, though I finished a good 16 issues of it to date before transitioning the characters into "book" format. "Solace" is a sem-continuation of my graphic novel "Kerouac Black": "Modus" is the sequel, and "Aqarius" is the "prequel.

If you're interested in that sort of thing, you might want to check out my "Primus" link as well. It's a comic book with a multi-racial cast that are also from different periods in history, both past and future. I'm working on illustrating that currently, along with finishing "Modus" and completing the soundtrack for "Aquarius".

I play guitar -- mostly stuff like Soundgarden, Nirvana, The Smashing Pumpkins, Pantera, The Cure and the like and I hope to animate Aquarius one day and include the soundtrack as well, so, yeah, I've got a lot on my plate.

Wow thanks man.

I'll give all of that a look. Sounds right up my alley.

I play bass and sing, mostly thrash and punk.
So the music stuff his close to home.

[aja_christopher]

Wow thanks man.

I'll give all of that a look. Sounds right up my alley.

I play bass and sing, mostly thrash and punk.
So the music stuff his close to home.

Yeah, Bidi (Antonio's nickname in "Aquarius") is mostly into punk as well. I always wonder how much Hernandez' "Love and Rockets" influenced me in that regard, but likewise I met plenty of Latino kids at the punk and metal shows I went to back before I transitioned more into EDM (raves and festivals).

Love listening to and creating both but prefer playing a live instrument to programming data to create sounds. I want to pull off something that does both so I'm learning a lot of Radiohead and checking out Damon Albarn's stuff (solo and with the Gorillaz) along with revisiting stuff like My Bloody Valentine and Sonic Youth.

I had a friend who transitioned from death metal to Drum and Bass and he said it was because he found a similar intensity in both forms of music. Personally, I can listen to anything from Andreas Vollenweider to Fiona Apple to Stevie Wonder to Deicide and find something that I like and might want to incorporate in my sound.

hopey on bass.jpg

[ed2962]

Oh, yeah, I agree with that. I actually should've said that I'd like it if racial issues did get handled more. I'd love it if we saw Prodigy get pulled over for a Driving While Black, or stuff like that. I suppose part of the problem is that most of the discrimination black people face is pretty subtle, and comics are all about going big. It's tough to explore issues of racial discrimination without making it so over-the-top that people just roll their eyes.

There's also the matter of most writers being white. We white people don't really see much of the black experience.

It depends on the writer though. Let's not forget that Stan Lee for all his faults did co-create the first black superhero and the first african-american hero. And he did do stories that touched on race back in the 60's. Sure, some of them are dated now, but a few of them still hold up. Don McGregor did not only some groundbreaking Black Panther stories but also a few interesting Luke Cage stories around the same time. Heck one of his Power Man stories was titled "Fire This Time" which was a play on "Fire Next Time" which was a book by James Baldwin. I remember Greg Rucka doing an interview where he said that while he didn't know about being a woman or drug addict or whatever, he made sure he'd ask someone who was or at least try to do some research. Many people on these board have talked about enjoying Ewing's handling of MA.

[ed2962]

hopey on bass.jpg

Ha! I have this comic!

I was tempted to make a joke about Maximum Rock N Roll mag, but I'm afraid it might make me look old.(smiley face)

[aja_christopher]

...over to another issue, I've always had a problem that there's no prominent male X-Man of color. Giant Size X-Men had the right idea, but Thunderbird was killed off and Sunfire left leaving the other white men...I think it's time to reintroduce Bishop and Sunfire back into the main group.

I started a thread similar to this one on the X-Boards last year for just that reason -- it was transitioned here, where the conversation quickly spread far beyond just the X-Books (though that was a serious point of contention amongst posters as well).

To his credit, Bendis is trying to introduce a multi-racial cast of new X-Men (under Cyclops) in Uncanny X-Men. I don't read it so I can't comment on the quality of said cast but I respect the effort. Killing off Peter Parker and replacing him with Miles was a bold move as well and if Miles actually joins said cast things might get even more interesting for everyone concerned.

Come to think of it, I think the only Bendis book I've bought is the Peter Parker/Miles Morales crossover -- Sara Pichelli sold that book for me, but I do think Miles' character (similar to Kamala Khan) could use a solid push into the larger Marvel Universe, given their potential to change the way many people view superheroes.

And for people who tend to complain about Miles' "character" I like to always remember that a character can only be as good (or bad) as its writer.

[Kasper Cole]

I started a thread similar to this one on the X-Boards last year for just that reason -- it was transitioned here, where the conversation quickly spread far beyond just the X-Books (though that was a serious point of contention amongst posters as well).

To his credit, Bendis is trying to introduce a multi-racial cast of new X-Men (under Cyclops) in Uncanny X-Men. I don't read it so I can't comment on the quality of said cast but I respect the effort. Killing off Peter Parker and replacing him with Miles was a bold move as well and if Miles actually joins said cast things might get even more interesting for everyone concerned.

Come to think of it, I think the only Bendis book I've bought is the Peter Parker/Miles Morales crossover -- Sara Pichelli sold that book for me, but I do think Miles' character (similar to Kamala Khan) could use a solid push into the larger Marvel Universe, given their potential to change the way many people view superheroes.

And for people who tend to complain about Miles' "character" I like to always remember that a character can only be as good (or bad) as its writer.

They're largely just sort of there...

The focus of that book is the teachers (Scott, Emma, Illyana).

[Sprite]

I recently finished reading Truth: Red, White and Black, and I thought it was an extremely wonderful story. It's a shame that the Bradleys have since fallen into obscurity, especially with Cap's recent push.

[Kasper Cole]

I recently finished reading Truth: Red, White and Black, and I thought it was an extremely wonderful story. It's a shame that the Bradleys have since fallen into obscurity, especially with Cap's recent push.

Truth is one of those books that's extremely well written and illustrated that many people just refused to give a chance because of what they think the premise is. It's sad that it's now out of print.

And you're right that it's a shame that The Bradley family is in limbo. There's lots of story potential with Eli and especially Josiah.

[Tiamatty]

It depends on the writer though. Let's not forget that Stan Lee for all his faults did co-create the first black superhero and the first african-american hero. And he did do stories that touched on race back in the 60's. Sure, some of them are dated now, but a few of them still hold up. Don McGregor did not only some groundbreaking Black Panther stories but also a few interesting Luke Cage stories around the same time. Heck one of his Power Man stories was titled "Fire This Time" which was a play on "Fire Next Time" which was a book by James Baldwin. I remember Greg Rucka doing an interview where he said that while he didn't know about being a woman or drug addict or whatever, he made sure he'd ask someone who was or at least try to do some research. Many people on these board have talked about enjoying Ewing's handling of MA.

I was going to mention that racial issues were handled quite often back in the day. J. Jonah Jameson refused to do business with a racist guy, and he turned against a politician he supported the moment he discovered the guy was racist. There were villains like the Sons of the Serpent, and plenty of other stories that were about how awful racism is. That kind of story pretty much disappeared by the '80s, maybe because civil rights in general became much less of a heated topic, and racism became more subtle and so harder to tackle in a way that doesn't look horribly outdated.

[Kieran_Frost]

To draw the discussion back to Marvel...

They're largely just sort of there...
The focus of that book is the teachers (Scott, Emma, Illyana).

That's not entirely true. Yes, Scott/Emma/Illyana are the leads (that's not surprising), but Bendis has given plenty of attention to the kids. Benjamin Deeds has had a whole issue just about him, we had a two-parter focused solely on the kids where Magik drops them in Tabula Rasa, Goldenballz had an arc where we went and met his family, explored their feelings towards cops and mutants, we've seen all of them reacting to their powers, we've had Hijack have a subplot with S.H.I.E.L.D. coming to him for information and him not selling out the X-men. They get just as much focus (if not more) as most supporting cast members in a comic.

But regardless, I'm happy Bendis has created such a diverse group of kids; the X-verse is doing well with diversity right now... which is why I find All New X-factor disappointing. Peter David has generally been very good with creating a diverse cast, so I hope we see more diversity added soon (though it's always good having a book with a female leader). I'm also hoping Kyle&Yost will bring back Warpath (since they are doing 'classic' with Amazing X-men's cast).

[mugiwara]

To his credit, Bendis is trying to introduce a multi-racial cast of new X-Men (under Cyclops) in Uncanny X-Men. I don't read it so I can't comment on the quality of said cast but I respect the effort.

It's an effort most X-writers do when they introduce young mutants. The probleme, is that every writer wants to create his own new generation of mutants, and that they don't replace the old, overexoposed characters, but the new characterss the precedent writer introduced.
So once Bendis is finished with the X-Men (and assuming he didn't kill his creations like he did with Echo and Victoia Hand), most of them will fade in background and be replaced by the new new new new new mutants.
Maybe Time-stop Girl will stick around (there is always a lucky one, like Pixe or Oya), but I don't expect the others to do big things 10 years from now.

[Kieran_Frost]

What's so unfortunate implication-y about a black male character being revealed as bi? Because they're people out there who "disagree" with homosexuality? As Tiamatty said, it's not like there's a whole lot of LGBT black male characters at Marvel anyway.

I'm not sure I see what's unfortunate about taking a single black male character and making him bisexual.

I don't understand the uproar either.

Neither do I.

I mean, I've heard the stories where people tried to cure homosexuality thru prayer, thru drugs, thru electric shock therapy, thru exorcism even and the individuals eventually went back to their previous behavior BUT I personally would back away from saying that certain people are living in denial.

And that's all they ever will be "stories". No-one, anywhere, EVER can be "cured" of homosexuality. Anyone who says they were is 100% living in denial. We are not a disease, we are not a defect of the mind, we cannot (and do not need to be) "cured."

BTW I wasn't a fan of turning Prodigy bi either, but that's just because he's a boring mary sue.

Oh, he's not a Mary Sue, that's not fair. He's got the benefit of A LOT of other people's skills, but he can't absorb more, and his powers aren't flawless, and he's still perfectly vulnerable. And while yes he saved the day in numerous ways at the end of Young Avengers, all his solutions rely on others; he's not a deus ex machina, nor can he cure all the world's problems on his own.

The level of outrage if a writer decides to take a character who's previously identified as gay and put him/her in a heterosexual relationship would depend on the writer and how it's handled. Someone like PAD, who has a strong history of LGBT inclusiveness, would get the benefit of the doubt more than someone like Remender, who doesn't have that history. Exploring the sexual identity of a young gay character would go over a lot better than exploring the sexual identity of an older gay character - Anole falling for a girl would prompt less anger than Northstar falling for a woman. And of course, the writer would also need to be extremely careful of unfortunate implication: Having a gay character start dating the opposite sex risks sending the implication that being gay is unnatural and that gay people would just be happier if they were straight. Avoiding that implication would be a tough trick to do in a story like that, and I think most writers probably couldn't really pull it off well.

LOL! If Hickman or Remender did this, you are right, they have ZERO credit with LGBT characters to survive the giant sh*t storm that would descend on them for writing such a story.

It's funny that writers have to be careful of unfortunate implications when it comes to LGBT people but that same privilege is not afforded to black people. Historically comics have not been sensitive to black people and their sensibilities.

Are they, though? Northstar was killed three times, in three comics in one month. Freedom Ring was impaled though his ass one month after an editor tooted him as "Marvel's leading LGBT star", in the final arc of Bendis' New Avengers a straight character get resurrected, while two LGBT characters don't get the same treatment (though died the same way) and remained dead.

Writers should be careful of avoiding unfortunate implications with black characters, too. I'm just not sure how writing a black character as bisexual falls under that. It's not like there's a large number of LGBT black male characters at Marvel. There's Prodigy, there's Northstar's husband, there's a supporting character from Kate's issues of Hawkeye, and that's all of the black male LGBT characters at Marvel. Two supporting character and Prodigy. So, I see no reason why Prodigy being bisexual should be considered a problem in terms of any implications.

To my knowledge, Prodigy is the only bisexual black male (on any main cast) at Marvel... and to some (apparently) that's one too many. SMH.

What?
So the reason people have issues with changing Prodigy to bi is because there's not enough straight representation? There's too few straight characters?
Anyone who believes that is truly deluded.

QUOTED FOR TRUTH!!!