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  1. #91
    Not your dad, I swear Ghostwise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    It had 30 issues... it doesn't take 30 issues to get in something as simple as this:
    My assumption was that Hickman had a story in mind about Stonewall that was more involved that an anecdotal mention of preferences, and didn't have time to tell it. That would make sense given the books and interview.

    Or maybe he just fumbled the ball, that happens too.
    Writeups.org -- huge encyclopaedia of characters, chiefly from super-hero comic books. It's great.

  2. #92
    Astonishing Member Global Honored's Avatar
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    LAST MOD BREAK ON THIS SUBJECT

    Stonewall's sexuality did not play into the story Secret Warriors was telling in its limited run. Could it have become something to explore, certainly. But it was not. It was an action packed espionage series. Hickman has stated that the character was gay. I don't see why we should assume otherwise. The reasons for him not coming out in the comic could be many. Let's not assume we know. Perhaps in the future the character will have a spotlight to shine on his personal life and relationships outside fighting evil.

    Let's not get hung up on it or assume we know ( which you do not) or dare insinuate against the writer's character because he did not do it the way you would have preferred. His job was simply to write a Nick Fury/Secret Warriors action comic book, period. He is a comic book writer, not a social activist. And he is quite a successful comic writer at that, penning titles with wide representation. Please do not assume you know or state the beliefs and intent of others. It is not right. And it will be moderated. This will not become a thread to point fingers. We don't need that. If you are here to do that then I must ask you to step out now.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    I love Khari Evans art! Why Marvel isn't giving her a high profile title is beyond me.
    Is she actually working with any other companies right now?


  4. #94
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    I don't know BCB. With her talent, she should be working somewhere. Maybe she's doing something for the Independents.

  5. #95
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    @Kieran_Frost

    Excellent list of LGBT characters. I don't see Captain Flame from Paul Jenkins' sadly aborted mini-series ALL WINNERS SQUAD. There was another character, his lover, but I can't remember his name. I want to say American Ace, but I'm not sure.

  6. #96
    BANNED Blade X's Avatar
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    Should. But since he only said it in an interview, it means that if a writer comes along who never saw that interview, and has an editor who never saw that interview, then he might be written as straight purely be accident. That's the problem with not putting shit on-panel: If it's not on-panel, it's not canon. Future writers shouldn't have to pore through interviews to know if there's anything about a character they need to know that wasn't in the books.

    Which is also why Hickman cannot pull the same bullshit again. If one of the Avengers is LGBT, that needs to be stated on-panel.
    Considering how many straight characters have been retconned into being gay/bi, I don't think that would be a problem. You (and other fans and many creators) have to realize that not everything has to be stated in a comic in order to be considered to be canon. By the same token, not every single thing that appears in a comic has to (or should) be cannon. I said it before and I'll say it again, a characters sexuality,gender,and race (regardless if it is stated in the comics or not) should be determined by said character's creator and should NOT be retconned or decided upon by a latter creator or editor. So if Hickman says that Stonewall is gay, then that's how he should be portrayed and written as by future writers. The same goes for Shatterstar being asexual,Rictor being straight,Psylocke being straight,and Moondragon being straight.
    Last edited by Blade X; 05-02-2014 at 03:07 PM.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    I don't know BCB. With her talent, she should be working somewhere. Maybe she's doing something for the Independents.
    It would be great to see her doing something like Mighty Avengers as I feel her style would suit that book immensely.

    And speaking of the Mighty Avengers, I wouldn't mind seeing a book exploring Adam and Kevin Brashear's adventures over the years before Kevin got trapped in the Neutral Zone.





    In fact, a book exploring Adam's current relationship with his kids would be pretty darn cool.
    Last edited by Mr MajestiK; 05-02-2014 at 03:03 PM.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    I loved Rita DeMara as YJ in Guardians of the Galaxy. I was totally bummed when she got killed off.
    Quoted because I agree with you.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    It had 30 issues... it doesn't take 30 issues to get in something as simple as this:

    or


    As others have rightly said, Hickman is the writer; the only reason it didn't happen in the comic is down to him. A line, one line... that's all it takes. 30 issues, one line... didn't happen. Nuff said.

    SIDE NOTE: not really relevant, but I found this while getting the other images, and I thought it was a good comment on how some str8 people try to "matchmake" their gay friends.
    I think you need to expand your view of what constitutes a story and character growth. The examples you posted are titles that heavily delve into their characters' relationships and personal lives. That's the nature of those stories. I can only assume that you want a clear-cut mention of a character's LGBT status for historical benefit based on what you posted. You want their indignation shown in the clear. But I ask, why does it matter if it doesn't fit into the context of the story being told? Just because a character isn't explicitly stated as LGBT in a story doesn't make it less true, does it? Nor does it mean that the writer is against a LGBT lifestyle.

    Taking SECRET WARRIORS as an example, the relationship between Stonewall and Yo-Yo is far more important than getting in a single panel saying Stonewall is gay. Their relationship contributes far more to the overall story than Stonewall's sexual status, therefore it makes more sense to focus on their relationship and leave Stonewall coming out on the cutting room floor.

    I also know you've expressed interest in LGBT representation in the Avengers (unless I'm mistaken, in which case I apologize) since Hickman stated there is LGBT representation there although it hasn't been shown. Truth-be-told, how much romance has there been to Hickman's Avenger odyssey? I can count one instance during Infinity which I think served more as a statement to these less experienced heroes being cast as interstellar warriors and feeling out of their element as opposed to developing character romance.

    Others here have said it well. Just because it's not within the pages doesn't make it false. I also don't think that sexual preference needs to be shoehorned into a story to contribute nothing except evidence that there is LGBT representation. In the end, it's all about the type of story being told. If it fits, it fits. If it doesn't, why force it? Some stories just aren't charged by sexual preference and character romance. I don't see that as a fault of the writer or the company.

  10. #100
    Rookie Member Just Is's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr MajestiK View Post
    It would be great to see her doing something like Mighty Avengers as I feel her style would suit that book immensely.

    And speaking of the Mighty Avengers, I wouldn't mind seeing a book exploring Adam and Kevin Brashear's adventures over the years before Kevin got trapped in the Neutral Zone.





    In fact, a book exploring Adam's current relationship with his kids would be pretty darn cool.
    I'd like to second this as well. I've been enjoying Mighty Avengers and, admittingly, knew next to nothing (ok, actually nothing) about Blue Marvel prior to this series but I did really enjoy that backstory.

    I've also always really been a fan of "hero of another story" stories so I'd really get a kick out of a mini of this.

  11. #101
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    Marvel needs to bring back the dudes of color of the X-Books: Bedlam, Kenji, Synch, Skin, Bishop (character assassination), etc...
    I liked them.

    Also, I quite like Benjamin Deeds in Uncanny X-Men. More of him please.
    Last edited by Supernature; 05-02-2014 at 03:57 PM.

  12. #102
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    I think race is finally being appropriately handled at Marvel. There's some links to Huffington Post in this thread that ask why are mainstream superheroes all white? I don't think that's an argument that isn't worth losing breath over. It's painfully obvious it's due to the nature of American society and social acceptance within the era the hero was created. Mathematically speaking, it makes sense that the mainstream heroes that are being capitalized come from that era of "white heroes". There's generations those characters have spanned and have had the luxury of time to turn them from a character into a mainstream character. Giving it time, I couldn't see why the same wouldn't happen for newer non-white characters to gain the same traction. I'd die a sad man on my deathbed if in 50 years time Luke Cage isn't a mainstream character. As society's social acceptance of minority heroes increases so will the prevalence of minority comic heroes. It's just still in that incubation period.

    That said, Marvel is doing right by throwing things at the fan and seeing what sticks. A Muslim female hero, a latino Ghost Rider (and a latino Nova), a black Superman archetype. A black Spider-Man! Nobody knows who the next breakout minority character will be, but Marvel is doing right by experimenting and letting the fans decide who sticks and who fails while continuing their company's mission of creating relatable characters that fans can connect with -- regardless of status. We're coming to an age where it's financially viable to experiment with these types of characters and not hide behind Spider-Man and Wolverine's skirts anymore.

    Also, I think it's worth noting that as American society becomes more progressive, the work force usually operates with the previous generation, just out of life. For instance, a writer from the 80s grew up in the 60s or 70s which has shaped their life experience, the same way that what's acceptable in the 2010's didn't shape my life experience which grew out of the 90s (I'm still EXTREME damnit!). So it only makes sense that the professional sector works about a generation behind in terms of American society for the most part. Things have rapidly changed with "the new guard" coming in who have grown up in the 80s or 90s where American ideals were infinitely more accepting of diversity than say the 50s and 60s. So has the American workforce changed, allowing more progressive minded people to take over for their predecessors who might have been more skittish about race or sex. Look at women in the workforce trends for great examples of how women in only a short few decades have progressed and been awarded opportunities that were previously reserved for men.

    I guess the message here is, we're in a good age for diversity exploration. Not every minority character will stick, but there is far more diverse mud being thrown in the fan than ever. It's not going to be an overnight process to get that first mainstream minority hero on par with Spider-Man or Superman. But we're in the beginning of the process. It should be a fun ride and it's nice to see it happening. It's a great thing.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supernature View Post
    Marvel needs to bring back the dudes of color of the X-Books: Bedlam, Kenji, Synch, Skin, Bishop (character assassination), etc...
    I liked them.

    Also, I quite like Benjamin Deeds in Uncanny X-Men. More of him please.
    I don't think you can equate your perceived character assassination with diversity. The two simply aren't related, especially in Bishop's case. His actions were never race related, as far as I know.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Is View Post
    I'd like to second this as well. I've been enjoying Mighty Avengers and, admittingly, knew next to nothing (ok, actually nothing) about Blue Marvel prior to this series but I did really enjoy that backstory.

    I've also always really been a fan of "hero of another story" stories so I'd really get a kick out of a mini of this.
    Welcome and thanks for the support.

    I'm a sucker for Indiana Jones/pulp adventure type stories so a mini-series centred around Adam and Kevin would be pretty cool.

    Agents of A.T.L.A.S. is another leftfield book that would be a blast to check out if Marvel ever decided to launch it again.

  15. #105
    Superior Homo Supernature's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somebodyatcbr View Post
    I don't think you can equate your perceived character assassination with diversity. The two simply aren't related, especially in Bishop's case. His actions were never race related, as far as I know.
    Sorry if there was a misunderstanding but that's not what I meant.

    There have been quite a few X-Males of color over the years many of whom have died and don't come back. Bishop was a pleasant exception, he had been around for quite some time and was gaining more steam. Unfortunately he was thrown under the bus to prop another character. He suddenly became one of the biggest criminals / villains of the X-Books, which brought us to 0 major X-Males of color.

    His action weren't race related, I get that. However making him into what he is now robbed many of someone to identify with, as there aren't that many people like him in the X-Verse and he still hasn't recovered from the treatment he received.

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