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  1. #5326
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    The problem was that unlike Denny O'Neill the show wasn't boring down very deep.
    They were speaking in cliches, with very simplistic plot devices to explain what was
    taking place.
    The problem right now is that the show tackles one hot button issue from episode to episode.
    It feels like: well, we only have so many episodes left let's talk about prison reform today. Next
    is public housing.

    I can't speak for everyone here, but it is such a disappointment where they are right now. They
    started out fairly fresh, finding new things to say. Now this season it has been well a descent
    that is lower and lower. Next week is Lena and her magical abilities, so God knows what that will be like.

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  3. #5328
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    It is the final season of Supergirl but the show feels even less about Supergirl and more about the talking point of the week that has nothing to do with Kara's character or giving her an overall arc. Instead the show is still all about the supporting characters with Kara just being the character they end up soapboxing too.

    I didn't like how the show handled the councilwoman in her first appearance but now they basically turn her into a cartoon character and Supervillain. Felt like a big stretch.

    There is some major tonal dissonance going on between the show to where we see the Super Friends trying to stop your average Big Bad but are then portrayed as being completely ignorant and callous towards the human cost and the "real world" problems they leave behind. Like them fighting the cat last episode is treated as them fooling around while a bunch of people are desperate and need help even though ostensibly they are also trying to save the city. And then after all this it looks like we're getting another comedy episode.

    This whole episode reminded me of Jimmy's big BLM episode in season 3 where the resident black character's inner emotional trauma over a long history of oppression, injustice, and prejudice finally become too much to bear and they have to teach the white characters about it.

    So Diggle and Jimmy are apparently closer in the Post-Crisis universe, and Diggle knows Jefferson Pierce. Fittingly since this episode felt like it was trying hard to feel like an episode of Black Lightning.

    Lena learning magic really doesn't feel like it fits her character, but the writers can't help but give characters powers. Also turns out she didn't even need to leave her personal training because she contributed nothing to this plot.

    Is anything really going to come out of this Diggle storyline? I have to doubt we're actually going to see him as a GL even if he's resolved to do something about it, and Brainy seems to have an inkling as to his future, but will this actually culminate in something on-screen? Otherwise was there a point to Diggle showing up other than bringing him back and having him inspire various black heroes?

    The councilwoman's guards immediately attacking Orlando with a stun baton out-of-nowhere felt so excessive.

    Andrea is back to being a callous jerk.

    Alex and Kara's talk with Kelly felt less like actual talks between the characters and more like the privileged white characters needing to be educated by the black character. I feel like these discussions are necessary and important but it also felt artificial to some degree, and do we really need our main protagonist getting lectured in the final season of her own show like she's just an audience surrogate?

    And it's not like Kara can't relate to having to bottle up emotions with a smile and a happy-go-lucky persona because that's part of how she processed the trauma of losing Krypton and her family. Although now her parents and friends are all alive in Argo, so I guess Kara really doesn't have anything to angst over anymore. Maybe that's why she seems so aimless now.

    Isn't part of the reason that J'onn had to look like a black man was because he was posing as Hank Henshaw?

    Y'know, none of the stuff Kelly said she wanted to achieve seem to really require her to be a vigilante. I guess it's important to have a boots on the ground hero for the little people but it also kind of makes the main heroes seem out-of-touch in comparison. Also seems like everyone's forgotten Guardian was a thing with Jimmy.

    Despite all my criticisms, that Guardian suit looked amazing.

    All this talk about the need to focus on stopping the councilwoman and not Nxly and they end up helping Nxly the moment they stop her. Like I said, tonal dissonance.

    So much for the 31st Century being a utopia. I mean, I think it's fair to say that maybe racists get exchanged for xenophobes, but still.

    This show seems way more confident in the political prospects of an ex-con trying to raise his brother running or a city council position than they should be. Then again, "reality" only seems to apply to this show when the writers want it to. Also, remember when Orlando and his brother were aliens? The story sure doesn't seem to.
    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    What coincidental timing.

  4. #5329
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Isn't part of the reason that J'onn had to look like a black man was because he was posing as Hank Henshaw?

    Despite all my criticisms, that Guardian suit looked amazing.

    It started with him looking like a Black man because he took Henshaw's face. But once he was discovered, I think he said that he felt comfortable in that face, which is why he kept it. What I would have loved to see was a flashback of J'onn living on Earth before he took Henshaw's place, and him living as a Black man.

    And yes, the suit does look damn good. It's funny that Brainy ended up becoming a better costume designer than Winn. Okay, fine- the first Supergirl suit and Guardian suit were pretty good, but I really hold Alex's suit against him. It was so BLAND.

  5. #5330
    Astonishing Member Captain Craig's Avatar
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    At least this show is ending. Ending on a whimper.
    The last two pages have touched on the reasons why.

    I too feel it almost a chore to get through some episodes. Especially the ones where the writers room wants to preach to you.

    Now, if only Legends would take a hint. It isn't preachy, just lost its way from an entertaining perspective.
    "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" - Optimus Prime

  6. #5331
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    This comes to mind. It was a pretty heavy thing to do in a mainstream comic in 1970, but that was 50 years ago and as they say, times have changed.

    No, they have. Back then O'Neil had someone actually from the community confront the hero. Now we have Kelly Olsen, former CTO (or something) or a multi-billion dollar company confronting her girlfriend and her super-friends about her problem about how they're not listening to her about wanting to help the down-trodden. I'm sure Kelly has a compelling story about race in her from her experiences, (in the military, or as a scientist, etc) but she co-opted other people's story here. This wasn't her life or her neighborhood or her struggles. Ham-fisted pablum like this is what gives liberals a bad name. They even tried to sneak this storyline in at first - remember when the housing storyline was about formerly-incarcerated aliens? They pivoted to another issue through subtext, then it was about something else other than aliens.

    And what the hell, Diggle?? I thought they resolved the GL thing off-screen when he said that he had an opportunity to be a special kind of hero, but it meant leaving Lyla and the kids, etc.... so I figured he turned it down. Fine - nice way to introduce the GL thing and get rid of it. So why did he say, "Worlds await" at the end? Did he suddenly change his mind? I didn't get what happened there.
    Last edited by j9ac9k; 09-24-2021 at 06:57 AM.

  7. #5332
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    No, they have. Back then O'Neil had someone actually from the community confront the hero. Now we have Kelly Olsen, former CTO (or something) or a multi-billion dollar company confronting her girlfriend and her super-friends about her problem about how they're not listening to her about wanting to help the down-trodden. I'm sure Kelly has a compelling story about race in her from her experiences, (in the military, or as a scientist, etc) but she co-opted other people's story here. This wasn't her life or her neighborhood or her struggles. Ham-fisted pablum like this is what gives liberals a bad name. They even tried to sneak this storyline in at first - remember when the housing storyline was about formerly-incarcerated aliens? They pivoted to another issue through subtext, then it was about something else other than aliens.
    It really does seem like the writers forgot these characters were supposed to be aliens with powers and just made them...regular people dealing with regular race issues.

    But I guess Kelly can't call out Kara for not caring about fellow aliens.

  8. #5333
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    No, they have. Back then O'Neil had someone actually from the community confront the hero.
    I had some problem with even that back in the late '70s, since I was fairly sure GL helped save quite a few "black skins" along the way. Having said that, it was a different time and place and the heavy-handedness could be excused. The last episode, however, is a different story.
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  9. #5334
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    I had some problem with even that back in the late '70s, since I was fairly sure GL helped save quite a few "black skins" along the way. Having said that, it was a different time and place and the heavy-handedness could be excused. The last episode, however, is a different story.
    It's kind of difficult to make Superheroes look out of touch when contrasted against the fact that they save a bunch of people and sometimes the whole planet on a daily basis.

  10. #5335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    It's kind of difficult to make Superheroes look out of touch when contrasted against the fact that they save a bunch of people and sometimes the whole planet on a daily basis.
    Exactly. Point fingers at others, not them.
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  11. #5336
    Mighty Member 90'sCartoonMan's Avatar
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    Well...that was something.

    I actually think it was a decent episode if you look at it from the angle that Kelly was at her breaking point. Her final scene with Alex and saying that it's like this pressure valve or whatever explains her need to speak up to the most powerful people she knows when she feels so powerless and sees so much injustice. Yes, it was preachy and yes they crammed so many issues and problems into one episode that dealt with one of the most out there beings on this show that it didn't stick the landing, but still, I could get where they're coming from.

    There were only bits and pieces of the episode I actually liked. Diggle helped with that a lot. Makes me wonder if Mehcad Brooks is going to show up for the finale, though.

    It would've been much better if it was just about the Congresswoman not helping the victims in the hospital when she easily could or even Catco not caring about certain groups, but they ended up throwing every current hot button issue they could in this episode. And Kelly becoming Guardian tackles which of these, again?

    Quote Originally Posted by RobinGA View Post
    They even had Brainy telling us after a thousand years that things really weren't any better.
    The pre-Bendis LSH at least gave us the hope that eventually racism, poverty, a host of problems
    were sort of solved.
    I hated that bit. Even way back in the day they were going to make Fero Lad a black hero to show it was no big deal that heroes of all races worked alongside each other equally. I'd rather take an optimistic if a bit naive future than a cynical but closer to present day attitudes one any time. I guess they wanted to drive the point home there are no easy answers and it's important to be active to make a change in the here and now, but that bit was just unnecessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    This whole episode reminded me of Jimmy's big BLM episode in season 3 where the resident black character's inner emotional trauma over a long history of oppression, injustice, and prejudice finally become too much to bear and they have to teach the white characters about it.

    So Diggle and Jimmy are apparently closer in the Post-Crisis universe, and Diggle knows Jefferson Pierce. Fittingly since this episode felt like it was trying hard to feel like an episode of Black Lightning.
    This episode made me miss the days of having Jimmy be the character that speaks out against racial injustice. This one did feel like it was trying to be Black Lightning, but it missed the mark so hard it couldn't even reach Batwoman levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    Ham-fisted pablum like this is what gives liberals a bad name. They even tried to sneak this storyline in at first - remember when the housing storyline was about formerly-incarcerated aliens? They pivoted to another issue through subtext, then it was about something else other than aliens.
    It felt like they wanted to be in tune with their mostly liberal audience but ended up going over the top and lecturing the main characters without having enough substance and working within the world they have already established.

  12. #5337
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sCartoonMan View Post
    I hated that bit. Even way back in the day they were going to make Fero Lad a black hero to show it was no big deal that heroes of all races worked alongside each other equally. I'd rather take an optimistic if a bit naive future than a cynical but closer to present day attitudes one any time. I guess they wanted to drive the point home there are no easy answers and it's important to be active to make a change in the here and now, but that bit was just unnecessary.
    There has been enough tangible progress in my lifetime (I was born in 1965) to believe race relations would become virtuallly harmonious in a thousand years.
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  13. #5338
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    There has been enough tangible progress in my lifetime (I was born in 1965) to believe race relations would become virtuallly harmonious in a thousand years.
    I'm of the opposite bent, but not in the way you'd expect - I can't imagine a thousand years from now we'll still have separate races of note, unless some outside force puts an end to globalization and interracial coupling and human breeding urges. Pretty much everyone will be of mixed heritage.

    I still don't think humanity will be harmonious mind you if we live that long as a species (which I doubt we will, pretty sure we'll be extinct centuries before then). If humanity is around in a thousand years, we'll still find some sort of tribalism to divide us, it just won't happen to be racially motivated tribalism anymore because we'll largely all be the same by then. I imagine it'll probably be more political and ideological differences. I can't imagine what the politics and ideologies of a thousand years will be, but I'm sure they'll be at least as divisive to that future populace as ours is now.

  14. #5339
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I do feel like this show is spending so much time preaching or dealing with topical issues that it's forgetting this is supposed to be the final season of the show and not just another season of Supergirl addressing political issues.

    Like Kara has barely done anything this season. Nobody feels like they're in their endgame character arcs. J'onn just stands around and comments on stuff.

  15. #5340
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sCartoonMan View Post
    There were only bits and pieces of the episode I actually liked. Diggle helped with that a lot. Makes me wonder if Mehcad Brooks is going to show up for the finale, though.
    There has been a ton of pics on Twitter of them filming the finale, and both Guardians (James and Kelly) were present, so I'm pretty sure Mechad will be showing up.

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