TV Supergirl [Spoilers]

[Captain Smith]

I'm getting a little tired of Winn's stupid quips and being a geek/jerk. Also, the DC shows are having a cliche of the geek becoming the super genius when before they were a nothing in terms of career. Like the DEO didn't have a staff of high order PHDs around.

So previews say Kara has to deal with killing someone? Didn't she kill a bunch of Martians and some others before. This brings up the basic flaw in some superheroes. We see the 'shall not kill' over and over. If you go into the Armed forces, intelligence services, or law enforcement, you have to train to use lethal force and answer the question of whether you can. It is getting old as a constant conflict. Be a EMT, MD, nurse or fireperson if you want to help but not fight.

[AJBopp]

So previews say Kara has to deal with killing someone? Didn't she kill a bunch of Martians and some others before. This brings up the basic flaw in some superheroes. We see the 'shall not kill' over and over. If you go into the Armed forces, intelligence services, or law enforcement, you have to train to use lethal force and answer the question of whether you can. It is getting old as a constant conflict. Be a EMT, MD, nurse or fireperson if you want to help but not fight.

While I wouldn't argue with the inconsistency of White Martians and such, the no-kill code is not old, it is (or should be) the defining distinction between a hero and a villain. Narratively-speaking, it's easier to hand-wave away a hero's accountability for their actions if they don't kill people. When someone with extraordinary abilities kills, then they need to be accountable for what they've done. That can't just be hand-waved away like it can if they break someone's arm or something.

In Supergirl's case, we have someone that, even with the existence of kryptonite, is capable of leveling several large cities before a defense could even be deployed. When someone like that takes a life, it's a big deal. Particularly since she is not a soldier, intelligence agent, or law enforcement officer. Strictly speaking, without knowing her identity, she's not even a citizen. She cooperates with the DOA, but is not employed by them, has never taken an oath for them, and abides by their rules of conduct out her own good graces. She's also not an EMT or a fireman. She's a citizen who can extraordinary things. Misuse those abilities, and how do you sustain a storyline where she's not accountable to anyone for it? It doesn't work.

[Batgrayson]

My issue with the "I don't kill" line it's that only works when it's true, or when a hero has killed in the past and then showed remorse or at least acknowledged it. But Kara has killed in the past, and it wasn't a big deal because she was saving people. She killed Non, Parasite and White Martians. She also decided to go forward with the plan of lead-poisoning the Daxamites.

At least make her say "I just kill as a last option". It is not true, but it's better. And something similar happens with Barry: he has killed fewer people than Kara, but usually someone on his team killed the big bad and it's not a problem. Iris killed Savitar, an alternative version of his fiance.

[AnakinFlair]

My issue with the "I don't kill" line it's that only works when it's true, or when a hero has killed in the past and then showed remorse or at least acknowledged it. But Kara has killed in the past, and it wasn't a big deal because she was saving people. She killed Non, Parasite and White Martians. She also decided to go forward with the plan of lead-poisoning the Daxamites.

At least make her say "I just kill as a last option". It is not true, but it's better. And something similar happens with Barry: he has killed fewer people than Kara, but usually someone on his team killed the big bad and it's not a problem. Iris killed Savitar, an alternative version of his fiance.

In regards to Barry, only once did a member of his team kill the Big Bad, and that was Iris killing Savitar. In season 1, Eddie killed himself, which erased Thawne from existence (so that is suicide). Season 2 Barry didn't kill Zoom; he merely held him down so the time wraiths could get him and turn him into the Black Racer (kinda still alive!). And in season 4, it was Devoe's wife that finally killed him (not a member of his team

On Kara, I agree with you. She's not as egregious with the killing as Oliver is, but she's still done it. And if Reign is now a separate entity from Sam, then she absolutely needs to kill her. Any restraint or compassion Reign had came from Sam. Without her, she's just a killing machine.

[Jim Kelly]

It may not be so much with the Big Bad on THE FLASH, but I recall several one-episode only rogues that died where Team Flash seemed to treat it like they had stubbed their toe and were really indifferent to the character's death and made no effort to avoid that result. This is especially egregious because those rogues (and some were DC heroes, too) have fans--so the CW burned through them at an alarming rate, like they didn't matter.

I feel that way about Parasite. Not that Supergirl killed him--I think he was already dead, in a sense, and Parasite was conceived more like a disease--but the Parasite in comics is a great villain and he was wasted on the TV show.

[AnakinFlair]

It may not be so much with the Big Bad on THE FLASH, but I recall several one-episode only rogues that died where Team Flash seemed to treat it like they had stubbed their toe and were really indifferent to the character's death and made no effort to avoid that result. This is especially egregious because those rogues (and some were DC heroes, too) have fans--so the CW burned through them at an alarming rate, like they didn't matter.

I feel that way about Parasite. Not that Supergirl killed him--I think he was already dead, in a sense, and Parasite was conceived more like a disease--but the Parasite in comics is a great villain and he was wasted on the TV show.

The thing with Parasite is, with how he was created, a new one could be created again later on down the line.

[Frontier]

Jesse Rath/Brainiac 5 has been promoted to series regular for season 4.

[Captain Smith]

The actual legal ramifications of Kara's involvement with the DOA isn't really relevant. She acts in situations that may require lethal force. If she cannot act with such if it is the way to prevent grievous bodily harm to an innocent or military/LEO-agent, she should not be in the game. That's the standard in the real world.

I note that the DOA crew and Lena were ok with murdering Reign who was being held prisoner in a quite unconstitutional matter. She was not attacking anyone when Lena tried to kill her. That whole situation is highly illegal. Kara didn't blink once on getting Reign a lawyer - so much for 'justice' in the American way.

I guess she's ok with Gitmo and Abu Ghraib.

The writers really need a seminar on the use of force and legal issues. Just like they need one on basic astronomy.

[AJBopp]

The actual legal ramifications of Kara's involvement with the DOA isn't really relevant. She acts in situations that may require lethal force. If she cannot act with such if it is the way to prevent grievous bodily harm to an innocent or military/LEO-agent, she should not be in the game. That's the standard in the real world.

Not without accountability, it isn't.

[AJBopp]

Not without accountability, it isn't.

If, as a private citizen (and particularly if I have a hidden identity) I shoot a person who is threatening to shoot someone else, I am going to jail. I may or may not be charged with a crime, but I will be held in custody where I can do no more violence until an official agent of the government confirms my identity and determines that I acted properly and with cause.


If I have telescopic vision and heat rays and turn to ash someone who is threatening to kill someone else - from two blocks away, and I also have super speed and super hearing and super strength and super flight and invulnerability and who knows what other super things that I may not have chosen to reveal to the world yet - that is an act that will rightfully terrify the world and accountability will be demanded.


In "the real world" accountability will also be demanded if I so much as disarm the guy, but in fiction it's reasonably plausible to hand wave away that sort of behavior. It's not reasonably plausible to give a person with those kinds of powers sole discretion on when those abilities should be used with lethal force. That's why superheroes have no kill rules. It just stretches credulity too far. Plus, it's just not as interesting a story.


"Oh, this is a tricky one. I'll just use lethal force."

[Bossace]

Boo they’ve changed Winn for the next season into a reoccurring character instead of a regular.

[Frontier]

Boo they’ve changed Winn for the next season into a reoccurring character instead of a regular.

Jeremy Jordan/Winn will become a recurring character in season 4.

“We love Jeremy, and even though he’s [not going to be around full-time], we’re not saying goodbye to Winn at all,” producers Robert Rovner and Jessica Queller told TVLine. “We’re already breaking big stories for him right now for the fall, and I think the fans will be excited to see what he has coming up.”

There will also be new character in Nia Nal, a Transgender woman, described as a "young Cat Grant-type." Judging by the name, I'm guessing she's a re-imagining of Dream Girl (Nura Nal).

[protege]

Jeremy Jordan/Winn will become a recurring character in season 4.



There will also be new character in Nia Nal, a Transgender woman, described as a "young Cat Grant-type." Judging by the name, I'm guessing she's a re-imagining of Dream Girl (Nura Nal).

That would be a sneaky way to expand the legion’s prescence on the show.

[Captain Smith]

Not without accountability, it isn't.

You miss my point. An organization would not allow someone like Kara into the field without her being on board with the procedures for using lethal force. She is a liability in certain circumstances.

[AJBopp]

You miss my point. An organization would not allow someone like Kara into the field without her being on board with the procedures for using lethal force. She is a liability in certain circumstances.

You miss the entire point. She's not an agent of the DEO. she cooperates with them but does not have enforcement authority and is not accountable to them in any official capacity.

Also, having super powers matters. It changes the game. It changes the rules. It's not the same thing as having specialized training. She has abilities that can destroy the world. One lethal force action on her part matters in a way it does not matter for anyone else.