TV Supergirl [Spoilers]

[Frontier]

Thinking back on it, I kind of wish Argo had stayed gone Post-Crisis instead of sticking around so that Kara's dad could turn up alive and just go back to basically the new Krypton only to be forgotten about and not really matter in the long run.

Probably never get mentioned in Superman and Lois much like Supergirl herself.

[AnakinFlair]

I agree, that was a pointless storyline and ending.

And what was the point of Mon-el saying, "I'll never come to this time period again." The show is ending, so he wouldn't be anyway. I guess so people don't ask when is he going to appear on the Flash?

That scene felt like a re-write, and it felt like neither of the actors really wanted to do it. It also felt like it was meant to appease the Supercorp shippers, by telling them that Mon-El and Kara would never be together.

I'm honestly shocked at how vitriolic the hate for Mon El is on Twitter with a segment of fans. And it always comes back to who the character was initially- the frat boy, slave-owning Daxemite. Basically, he was the alien Ollie Queen. And they outright ignore all of the growth his character went through, how he became a better person because of Kara, how he was willing to sacrifice himself to stop his mother, how he went to the future and formed the Legion of Superheroes based off of the ideals he was taught from Kara. It's actually kind of annoying.

[AnakinFlair]

Thinking back on it, I kind of wish Argo had stayed gone Post-Crisis instead of sticking around so that Kara's dad could turn up alive and just go back to basically the new Krypton only to be forgotten about and not really matter in the long run.

Probably never get mentioned in Superman and Lois much like Supergirl herself.

I get what you are saying (and I do think the dad should have stayed dead, especially if they were never going to bring him and/or Alura back for the finale), but I'm glad they brought Argo back at the end of Crisis because Kara had lost so much in that crossover, I wanted her to have a win and NOT lose people for a change.

Just want to put this out there for those who insist that Superman and Lois is on a different earth or in a different continuity- Superman was supposed to show up in Armageddon, but they couldn't make the schedules work. Also, he still has a seat in the Hall of Justice, right next to Supergirl's.

[Frontier]

That scene felt like a re-write, and it felt like neither of the actors really wanted to do it. It also felt like it was meant to appease the Supercorp shippers, by telling them that Mon-El and Kara would never be together.

I'm honestly shocked at how vitriolic the hate for Mon El is on Twitter with a segment of fans. And it always comes back to who the character was initially- the frat boy, slave-owning Daxemite. Basically, he was the alien Ollie Queen. And they outright ignore all of the growth his character went through, how he became a better person because of Kara, how he was willing to sacrifice himself to stop his mother, how he went to the future and formed the Legion of Superheroes based off of the ideals he was taught from Kara. It's actually kind of annoying.

I too also underestimated how much people disliked Mon-El. Not that I think his character development or romantic arc with Kara was spectacular or anything but he didn't come off near as badly to me as he did for others, but maybe as a guy I just didn't process his character flaws or the negative undertones of his relationship with Kara as others did.

I think some also view him as a self-insert for Andrew Kreisberg.

I get what you are saying (and I do think the dad should have stayed dead, especially if they were never going to bring him and/or Alura back for the finale), but I'm glad they brought Argo back at the end of Crisis because Kara had lost so much in that crossover, I wanted her to have a win and NOT lose people for a change.

Just want to put this out there for those who insist that Superman and Lois is on a different earth or in a different continuity- Superman was supposed to show up in Armageddon, but they couldn't make the schedules work. Also, he still has a seat in the Hall of Justice, right next to Supergirl's.

I know, but it feels like now she's basically lost nowhere near as much as she did when she was the Last Daughter of Krypton when a big chunk of her homeworld, her parents, and even her childhood friend are still alive and kicking. The show lost some of its pathos in my opinion and they basically ignored Argo otherwise.

It'd be like establishing a secret sect of Green Martians still alive on Mars and that J'onn's daughters are somehow still alive.

I know Superman and Lois is ostensibly set on the same world but the story of season 1 would not have held up near as well if they acknowledged Argo and Superman's aunt are still alive in space and that Superman isn't desperate for a shred of Krypton like his half-brother is. Or like his cousin who grew up on Krypton and probably would have had something to say about everything going on.

[RobinGA]

Frontier raises the basic problem with Krypton survivals.
It strikes against the whole idea that Clark and Kara were the only ones who survived.
When you bring back these pockets of Krypton, you also lessen the idea that the demise of Krypton
was one of the greatest galactic holocausts. How bad was it really? We've got all these cities which have
managed to reconstitute themselves. Kara Zor-El even gets to go back to hang out with her Kryptonian family.

It also negates the whole part of the immigrant story that was part of Superman and Supergirl. They were like
those American and Canadian immigrants who boarded a passenger ship, cut ties with the old world, making
a new life for themselves in North America. It was even worse for them in that their world blew up. Well, forget
that we have Kryptonian #5 million who is showing up.

I also think that Superman's context when it comes to Krypton is always going to be different from Kara. He fled
as a baby, his Krypton is always going to be crystals, not something he personally experienced. Kara, by contrast,
actually lived there before her part of Krypton was captured, with her ultimately escaping. She has memories, experiences,
a sense of what Krypton as a living place was like. For Superman it is like going to a ruin, picking through the rubble
to piece together important concepts.

It has always struck me that Kara's pain over Krypton's passing would always be sharper than what Superman experienced.
Superman feels pain over Krypton's passing, but it just isn't at the same level. Clark was bundled aboard a ship from Germany in 1933 while
a baby, while Kara actually grew up in the old world that the Nazi's destroyed with the holocaust.

[AnakinFlair]

It'd be like establishing a secret sect of Green Martians still alive on Mars and that J'onn's daughters are somehow still alive.

In a way, they kind of did this. J'onn thought he was the last Green Martian, but then found his father, and then his brother. Though unlike Kara, he did lose his father again (and like Kara's dad, his brother went off to Mars, never to be heard from again).

[AnakinFlair]

Frontier raises the basic problem with Krypton survivals.
It strikes against the whole idea that Clark and Kara were the only ones who survived.
When you bring back these pockets of Krypton, you also lessen the idea that the demise of Krypton
was one of the greatest galactic holocausts. How bad was it really? We've got all these cities which have
managed to reconstitute themselves. Kara Zor-El even gets to go back to hang out with her Kryptonian family.

It also negates the whole part of the immigrant story that was part of Superman and Supergirl. They were like
those American and Canadian immigrants who boarded a passenger ship, cut ties with the old world, making
a new life for themselves in North America. It was even worse for them in that their world blew up. Well, forget
that we have Kryptonian #5 million who is showing up.

I also think that Superman's context when it comes to Krypton is always going to be different from Kara. He fled
as a baby, his Krypton is always going to be crystals, not something he personally experienced. Kara, by contrast,
actually lived there before her part of Krypton was captured, with her ultimately escaping. She has memories, experiences,
a sense of what Krypton as a living place was like. For Superman it is like going to a ruin, picking through the rubble
to piece together important concepts.

It has always struck me that Kara's pain over Krypton's passing would always be sharper than what Superman experienced.
Superman feels pain over Krypton's passing, but it just isn't at the same level. Clark was bundled aboard a ship from Germany in 1933 while
a baby, while Kara actually grew up in the old world that the Nazi's destroyed with the holocaust.

I actually agree with you. And I wish that they had taken the time to explore her pain at losing her world more than they did (honestly, I don't remember them ever addressing it for long on the shows. It would have been nice to have an episode devoted to a remembrance day or something).

[Frontier]

In a way, they kind of did this. J'onn thought he was the last Green Martian, but then found his father, and then his brother. Though unlike Kara, he did lose his father again (and like Kara's dad, his brother went off to Mars, never to be heard from again).

Well, 3 is pretty understandable in my opinion.

I actually agree with you. And I wish that they had taken the time to explore her pain at losing her world more than they did (honestly, I don't remember them ever addressing it for long on the shows. It would have been nice to have an episode devoted to a remembrance day or something).

I think it was much more present in season 1, especially when she was dealing with her aunt and the other Kryptonians, at least.

[Jokerz79]

Well, 3 is pretty understandable in my opinion.

I think it was much more present in season 1, especially when she was dealing with her aunt and the other Kryptonians, at least.

Personally, I'm a purist I'll give Connor a pass because he's a clone and half clone at that, Kara gets a pass, Jon because he's half human, and I give a pass to the Phantom Zone villains because one it's ironic that the only Kryptonians alive are criminals and since they're in another dimension they're not really around either.

These passes allow Kal-El to be the true "Last Son of Krypton" in the Universe.

Even Kandor and Krypto I prefer post crisis origins of Kandor a city filled with Alien Refugees and not Kryptonians and Krypto a Cadmus experiment.

So yeah I hope Argo City and Uncle Zor-El and Allura aren't mentioned again.

[Frontier]

Personally, I'm a purist I'll give Connor a pass because he's a clone and half clone at that, Kara gets a pass, Jon because he's half human, and I give a pass to the Phantom Zone villains because one it's ironic that the only Kryptonians alive are criminals and since they're in another dimension they're not really around either.

These passes allow Kal-El to be the true "Last Son of Krypton" in the Universe.

Even Kandor and Krypto I prefer post crisis origins of Kandor a city filled with Alien Refugees and not Kryptonians and Krypto a Cadmus experiment.

So yeah I hope Argo City and Uncle Zor-El and Allura aren't mentioned again.

I wonder if we'll ever get an Arrowverse Krypto.

[AnakinFlair]

I wonder if we'll ever get an Arrowverse Krypto.

Well, Titans was shown during Crisis, so we kinda got one already.

[Agent Z]

Frontier raises the basic problem with Krypton survivals.
It strikes against the whole idea that Clark and Kara were the only ones who survived.
When you bring back these pockets of Krypton, you also lessen the idea that the demise of Krypton
was one of the greatest galactic holocausts. How bad was it really? We've got all these cities which have
managed to reconstitute themselves. Kara Zor-El even gets to go back to hang out with her Kryptonian family.

It also negates the whole part of the immigrant story that was part of Superman and Supergirl. They were like
those American and Canadian immigrants who boarded a passenger ship, cut ties with the old world, making
a new life for themselves in North America. It was even worse for them in that their world blew up. Well, forget
that we have Kryptonian #5 million who is showing up.

I also think that Superman's context when it comes to Krypton is always going to be different from Kara. He fled
as a baby, his Krypton is always going to be crystals, not something he personally experienced. Kara, by contrast,
actually lived there before her part of Krypton was captured, with her ultimately escaping. She has memories, experiences,
a sense of what Krypton as a living place was like. For Superman it is like going to a ruin, picking through the rubble
to piece together important concepts.

It has always struck me that Kara's pain over Krypton's passing would always be sharper than what Superman experienced.
Superman feels pain over Krypton's passing, but it just isn't at the same level. Clark was bundled aboard a ship from Germany in 1933 while
a baby, while Kara actually grew up in the old world that the Nazi's destroyed with the holocaust.

Clark was originally supposed to be the last Kryptonian before Kara showed up, so that ship sailed a long time ago.

A genocide or holocaust isn't any less tragic because more than two people survived it. The Jewish Holocaust and the Native American genocide aren't any less horrible because their descendants are still around. This doesn't change the fact that Kara lost her parents, witnessed the destruction of her home and her people scattered across the galaxy with their culture at risk of fading away.

[RobinGA]

We are each free to view this issue as we like.
But here is the problem as I see it.

The template has been set with Clark and Kara (I would argue it is the Karas, but that too can be a
subject of debate).
You suddenly have the emergence of all these new Kryptons and Kryptonians.
Superman when confronted by these other Kryptonians, says something like I thought that it was me alone.
Well, is the reply, you had it wrong.
Usually the story runs with Superman and Supergirl being at first thrilled to know they are not alone.
Then often they discover they really aren't Kryptonians at all.
Or they discover they are in fact Kryptonians, but are usually bad ones, who need to be defeated.
So many show up that it seems to defeat the whole idea that they are the last survivors.

Part of the reason the bad Kryptonians show up is to give the Supers a major problem to defeat.
We saw that recently on Superman and Lois where a virtual army of Kryptonians showed up to
harass poor Superman and family.

Personally, I could do without them to be honest. How many times do we need to see a movie with
General Zod and that kneeling business anyway? Krypton was more than the military caste, but they
are the prime ones who show up to be a pain. But, of course, a doctor, an engineer who wants to actually
make a positive contribution to Earth is hardly a builder of drama.

[AnakinFlair]

We are each free to view this issue as we like.
But here is the problem as I see it.

The template has been set with Clark and Kara (I would argue it is the Karas, but that too can be a
subject of debate).
You suddenly have the emergence of all these new Kryptons and Kryptonians.
Superman when confronted by these other Kryptonians, says something like I thought that it was me alone.
Well, is the reply, you had it wrong.
Usually the story runs with Superman and Supergirl being at first thrilled to know they are not alone.
Then often they discover they really aren't Kryptonians at all.
Or they discover they are in fact Kryptonians, but are usually bad ones, who need to be defeated.
So many show up that it seems to defeat the whole idea that they are the last survivors.

Part of the reason the bad Kryptonians show up is to give the Supers a major problem to defeat.
We saw that recently on Superman and Lois where a virtual army of Kryptonians showed up to
harass poor Superman and family.

Personally, I could do without them to be honest. How many times do we need to see a movie with
General Zod and that kneeling business anyway? Krypton was more than the military caste, but they
are the prime ones who show up to be a pain. But, of course, a doctor, an engineer who wants to actually
make a positive contribution to Earth is hardly a builder of drama.

Personally, I'd love to see a Superman with any villain other than Zod or Lex. Both have been done to death.

[Frontier]

I want to see Cryer's Lex fight Hoechlin's Superman.