In Your Face Jam - Oct 28, 2015

[Timbales]

I haven't read Captain America in years and this story doesn't really entice me to, especially with how the issue of illegal immigration is handled. It seems like that unless you are pro-illegal immigration, you might as well be in the KKK. I have no issues with people who legally immigrate to the US - that's how my ancestors got here, that's how my husband and his family got here. I'm not in favor of people who skirt the legal processes of coming to the US and becoming citizens.

[leo619]

Excellent column. Though I disagree with the implication that being anti-PC is the same as being racist. Some people just hate cognitive dissonance and the climate of constant offence.

More like people want to be able to say racist things and not be called a racist. Essentially wanting to make their cake and eat it too. If Americans were fine with giving people the proper respect that they deserve, their wouldn't need to be a term like "PC." Instead, people want to say racist, sexist, homophobic things and not be called out for it. But that's not going to happen.

[leo619]

I haven't read Captain America in years and this story doesn't really entice me to, especially with how the issue of illegal immigration is handled. It seems like that unless you are pro-illegal immigration, you might as well be in the KKK. I have no issues with people who legally immigrate to the US - that's how my ancestors got here, that's how my husband and his family got here. I'm not in favor of people who skirt the legal processes of coming to the US and becoming citizens.

Than you shouldn't be a American, seeing as America was literally founded on illegal immigration. Unless George Washington and those leaving Britain fulfill some type of documentation for immigration to the Native Americans, well before they slaughter them and all.

[Exciter]

I haven't read Captain America in years and this story doesn't really entice me to, especially with how the issue of illegal immigration is handled. It seems like that unless you are pro-illegal immigration, you might as well be in the KKK. I have no issues with people who legally immigrate to the US - that's how my ancestors got here, that's how my husband and his family got here. I'm not in favor of people who skirt the legal processes of coming to the US and becoming citizens.

Well, the Sons of the Serpent appeared like they were going to kill the illegal immigrants. I think that right there establishes clearly that they're bad guys.

[Tom Reed]

Than you shouldn't be a American, seeing as America was literally founded on illegal immigration. Unless George Washington and those leaving Britain fulfill some type of documentation for immigration to the Native Americans, well before they slaughter them and all.

The entire world is full of illegal immigrants, The Romans invaded Britain. The Mongols invaded Europe. The Spanish invaded the US. And on and on.

[Timbales]

Well, the Sons of the Serpent appeared like they were going to kill the illegal immigrants. I think that right there establishes clearly that they're bad guys.

Yes. The murderous people are targeting the illegal immigrants. That's kind of the point of what I was saying.

[Exciter]

Yes. The murderous people are targeting the illegal immigrants. That's kind of the point of what I was saying.

I think you can be opposed to illegal immigration and still realize that killing those illegal immigrants would be wrong. As I said before, if the Sons were just going to punch them for breaking the law it might be a much more gray issue.

[Timbales]

I think you can be opposed to illegal immigration and still realize that killing those illegal immigrants would be wrong. As I said before, if the Sons were just going to punch them for breaking the law it might be a much more gray issue.

Yes, that's true. But alot of people, like the poster in this thread, see being against any kind of immigration as being horrible. It's a more complex issue than what's being presented by the creative team and it's indicative of any kind of discourse about any important issue. You have to be 100% in one camp or the other, there is no middle ground to be had.

[Exciter]

Yes, that's true. But alot of people, like the poster in this thread, see being against any kind of immigration as being horrible. It's a more complex issue than what's being presented by the creative team and it's indicative of any kind of discourse about any important issue. You have to be 100% in one camp or the other, there is no middle ground to be had.

I don't know, I thought the book was fair and presented the complexity well. There were many normal, not evil people who were anti-illegal immigration in the book. It's not like Sam was trying to give them a pathway to citizenship, he just didn't want them to be killed.

Plus, I think you can enjoy a book about a character who holds different views than you do if it's well written. I'm enjoying this take on Sam. Maybe Marvel could do a US Agent book or something where the main character is highly conservative.

[gantz_alien_killer]

Than you shouldn't be a American, seeing as America was literally founded on illegal immigration. Unless George Washington and those leaving Britain fulfill some type of documentation for immigration to the Native Americans, well before they slaughter them and all.

I hate to bust your bubble but there were no immigration laws to break. Native americans had no concept of immigration nor did they have any system of laws to enforce. your entire notion is absurd.

[Reality]

Meant CD as in cognitive dissonance. I was saying in response to that comment. It seems to me saying something is PC is cognitive dissonance to the t.

The idea of "climate of constant offense" is pretty silly. It's like people are preaching from these armchairs and are are afraid to say what they are going to say KNOWING that it is somehow stupid and ignorant but have the nerve to tell people to accept it anyway.

Is that clearer?

Yes, but it still doesn't make sense. Cognitive dissonance is defined as holding two conflicting ideas as true at the same time. Political correctness is the etiquette performed by those who believe that speech should offend nobody, especially not minority groups. Saying something or someone is or are PC is to say that they're acting strategically inoffensive and subsequently insanely outraged when someone doesn't follow their personal standards. Which, by definition, are not universal. Disagreeing with someone doesn't require two or more conflicting ideas to be held at once. Sanitizing your speech does.

One can disagree with that and not be racist or sexist or transphobic. I personally think that anybody should be able to say anything, and anyone be able to say anything back. If someone says something you disagree with it's better to make your case for why that's bad than it is to say they can't say it at all. The opinions of others shouldn't be echoes of your own, or else. You have the right to be offended, you don't have the right to never be offended. Political correctness is a very entitled outlook, IMHO.

That isn't say this is a leftist pattern of behavior, though- the right wing follows the pattern of offence perfectly, but from the opposite direction content wise. These days everyone feels like the opinions of others somehow harm their own. I say if your opinion cannot bear others that differ from it, your opinion likely is quite frail. And this insecure outrage is everywhere. And it is very, very tedious.

No, I mean the disrespect that Sam showed for Steve when he ordered those birds to crap on him and the SHIELD agents.If you actually read what I wrote I agreed about the cosmic cube weapons. But I also am wondering about Sam using this Whisperer for his own ends.

Oh, yeah. I had forgotten about that. I felt kind of bad for SHIELD.

Thanks to social media the days of anyone being able to control the narrative are long gone. As with pretty much everything else that's labeled political this will appeal to those who agree and be ignored by those who don't. The F&F angle is funny though, I think TC confused movie popularity with comics popularity.

This is both true and untrue. These days it really is impossible to control the narrative from the top down, but that's because people are controlling the narratives from the bottom up. Individuals now are bombarded with so much media that they tend to consume mostly the news and politics they agree with. It's the main reason we've seen increasingly partisan political views taking root, as the media is every individual's personal safe space, free from whatever they disagree with. This is why how well Americans think their economy is doing graphs exactly alongside their political affiliations and viewing patterns (currently Republicans think bad, Democrats think good, truth is more the latter but slightly the former).

It's a problem for the whole political spectrum. And partisan politics are stupid anyway. It should only be about the issues and how to solve them.

More like people want to be able to say racist things and not be called a racist. Essentially wanting to make their cake and eat it too. If Americans were fine with giving people the proper respect that they deserve, their wouldn't need to be a term like "PC." Instead, people want to say racist, sexist, homophobic things and not be called out for it. But that's not going to happen.

Being respectful isn't the same as being PC. Being PC is being deliberately and comprehensively inoffensive to everyone, but especially minorities. You can be respectful without the kiddy gloves. It's more that PC-acting people tend to pull out the -ist card whenever they don't like something, and it acts as a barrier to actual discussion.

I hate to bust your bubble but there were no immigration laws to break. Native americans had no concept of immigration nor did they have any system of laws to enforce. your entire notion is absurd.

There were no immigration laws to break, but there were ample natives to drive off their lands, massacre, rape and generally screw over. The idea being that America was founded by far worse invaders than the illegal immigrants that just want to work and be safe.

A constructive conservative approach to the problem of illegal immigration would be to help make south of the border a place people don't want to leave. The US has the resources to help their neighbors and reduce the flow of immigration, but instead politicians promise walls.