Superboy reboot?

[Sacred Knight]

True. The majority/minority argument is rather played, probably weak to go there. The Jon Lane Kent thing was not well-received but for more than one reason. In retrospect I shouldn't use that as an excuse that they can't go creative and try something totally different again.

[Superlad93]

I've been kicking around a thought for a while now: what if Superboy wasn't a clone, another kryptonian's son, or Clark Kent? What if he was just a human kid who is turned into a Kryptonian approximation? The child could be down on his luck completely put put upon, and without a family. Then one day this 10 year old boy is given the powers of Superman. And what if (stay with me here) it's Mr Mxyzptlk who 'creates' him? It'd be a riff on the Shazam empowerment concept (complete with a 'wizard' and all), but you never lose the young boy to the stronger, smarter, 'better' adult self. It's a full circle sort of thing. Finally the first 'son' of Superman has come home.

Now that's the skeleton of the concept. Going deeper, we could do a sort of reverse Superdoomsday (Earth 23). Have a cover corporation made by a 5th dimensional being who turns this down on his luck kid into the ultimate super kid. We don't even need to use Mxyzptlk. We could do one better and throw a curve ball by using Mrs. Nyxlygsptlnz aka Mrs. Nyxly. This new Superboy could be the son she never had (completely anyway) and from that she could take on a very maternal role that mirrors her time with Clark early on in Action, but more directly. However she's no longer the nice old hippy lady we last saw. That body is dead. Now she's back in this chic sliver haired older businesswoman mold, and she's more a modern takes no sh!t single mom sort of deal.

Now what this does is ground the 5th dimension a little with a sort of anchoring point in the Superman world in the form of a building (maybe with no windows or doors on the outside) and with Superboy as an avatar. It also allows Superboy, the ultimate kid, the ultimate playground. He's an agent of the 5th dimension! You can do ANYTHING ANYTHING ANYTHING with that.

But at the heart is the story of an adopted family finding their footing around each other and coming togther. She's already lost a son and now's her second chance. He's never had a real home or family and now's his chance for one. A new dynamic is then born in the Superman world. Also Clark gets to see Mrs. N again, and that's awesome.

Superboy: Agent of I.M.A.G.I.N.A.T.I.O.N.


..........hey, you guys said they'd be down for anything, right?

[Superlad93]

Duplicate post

[Ascended]

Superboy: Agent of I.M.A.G.I.N.A.T.I.O.N.

..........hey, you guys said they'd be down for anything, right?

Okay.

Well, I've been thinking for a while that the 5th dimension needs to be more important to the mythos, rather than just being the place Myx comes from. This is as good a way to expand upon the concept as any. It makes the realm more than just a vague place "out there" somewhere. It's an interesting spin on the Superboy concept and removes itself from previous attempts.

But....two things.

What's the reason for this kid to be Superboy? Why not be "Bombastic Hero Kid" or something? The connection to Mrs. Nylyx is inspired, but her relationship with Clark is null at this point. I feel like there has to be a decent tether to Superman that isnt there right now.

Secondly, its way too close to Shazam. You mention it yourself, but damn, we'd never hear the end of it. And gods forbid the character catch on enough to get a solo series before Billy does!

That said, I'd read it. I'd read the hell out of it. I always love your ideas, they're full of imagination and ridiculousness in the best, Morrison-ish way.

Additionally....why not give this Superboy a different powerset? I always liked the idea that not all kryptonians would manifest their powers in the same way. What if this kid had energy manipulation powers like Clark did briefly back in the day? You know, just to really add insult to injury for the Shazam fans Or what if he was a reality sculptor, akin to Firestorm and the 5th dimensional imps he gets his powers from?

[stephens2177]

I will take any new version of Superboy,BUT Kon-El is a actual.character that might need to be streamlined and straightenEd out,but just like wally west,characters really do matter.

[Superlad93]

What's the reason for this kid to be Superboy? Why not be "Bombastic Hero Kid" or something?

Ah but that's very simple, because Superman is Myx's best and most famous trick. Also Mrs. N has a soft spot for the hero and the nostalgia of her relationship (along with the maternal bond she had with Clark) with him. Also Superman's strength as a concept holds great weight and almost shamanic power in the 5th D. There's probably a voweless version of the word Superman in the 5th D. If you remember the 5thD is outside of time so they've already seen the importance of Superman to all of creation.

The connection to Mrs. Nylyx is inspired, but her relationship with Clark is null at this point. I feel like there has to be a decent tether to Superman that isnt there right now.

I don't see why their relationship is null at this point. Simply because time has past doesn't make her any less special to him or linked to him. She was the Merlin to his young Arthur. Honestly I don't see why just having a link to the 5th D isn't enough. It's not like cadmus was any more ingrained within Superman than the 5th D was.

But ultimately I must admit, I was only loosely thinking of the new 52 continuity and just cheery picking lol Some more mulling over might have me come up with something. BUT I'm keeping mama Nyxly What about the original Superboy (Kon-el) gave a better tether IYO? So I can know where to start.

Secondly, its way too close to Shazam. You mention it yourself, but damn, we'd never hear the end of it.

Good point. It was more homage but that was probably doing too much. How's this:

Take away the orphan angle and make it an after school deal for this kid. It's part-time jobs, playing pretend, and after school activities (sports, clubs, community service) all rolled into one and heightened. Single dad. Mr. N is that missing maternal figure for him. There's no magic word or transformation. The kid actually instead had to sit through a bunch of bureaucratic paper work. I'd make the 5D magic tempered by rules and regulations. It's no different from science in that things don't just happen. Play up the idea that our world slows things down like fly paper. It's 5D physics. The laws of cause and effect made into satire and a riff on the Superman universe's affinity for science and shyness to magic using white collar bureaucracy.

That said, I'd read it. I'd read the hell out of it. I always love reading your ideas, they're full of imagination and ridiculousness in the best, Morrison-ian way.

highest compliment you can pay me, sir. Thank you for the kind words and honest critiques. It's a half backed idea that I've just been toying with off and on for like 3 days, but I thought it could be fun and wanted to see what others made of it.

Additionally....why not give this Superboy a different powerset? I always liked the idea that not all kryptonians would manifest their powers in the same way. What if this kid had energy manipulation powers like Clark did briefly back in the day? You know, just to really add insult to injury for the Shazam fans

I think it's the simplicity of being an invulnerable kid with super strength. The idea of being a running and jumping kinetic kid who's impervious to concrete scrapes, grass burns, and stubbed toes. Kid's are beings that are expressing themselves primarily through the physical--through their bodies. I think Superman's simple yet imaginative powers lend themselves best to kids. I feel like it's less fun for a kid to have to explain his powers while in uses and it slows the energy of things down. The other option is the ability to imagine whatever they like into being. See Hickman's Franklin Richards for that one done right. You don't have explain it, and when you do it's so matter a fact and simple. But I actually rather Superman's set for the physicality of it. I'd even keep flying out of it. He is imagination's physical agent so I figure he should be largely physical.

That's not to say he can't use gadgets though. Remember all the time when you were a kid and you'd pretend boxes were space ships and sticks were ray guys? Why not give him these ridiculous gadgets that look like nothing you've ever seen and look like they shouldn't function but they do. He wouldn't be Batman and they'd only be situational

[Superlad93]

I will take any new version of Superboy,BUT Kon-El is a actual.character that might need to be streamlined and straightenEd out,but just like wally west,characters really do matter.

I never said the proposed character was named Kon-El. I just said he would be called Superboy after the mold of Superman.

[stephens2177]

I never said the proposed character was named Kon-El. I just said he would be called Superboy after the mold of Superman.

And I never did say my comment was directed toward you.we have been through this subject enough,and we both know where the other stands,so no need to go over it again.

[Slaughter]

Anyone here read Convergence: Superboy? There were some weirdo retrospective things, but on the whole it read like the Superboy we all want - TTK + Kryptonian Superpowers, Kon-El, his classic supporting cast, etc. Also he did fantastically in the fight against the Kingdom Come crew, even through he was totally out-numbered AND out-powered.

It's obviously not possible, it's comic book science. That said, you're treating the matter as if Superboy was created as the child of Superman and Lex when he was created as a clone/fusion of both. Different things there.
Also, take your homophobic views elsewhere (preferably away from society) or you'll be reported.

My views are not homophobic, I was more thinking in the terms of bad jokes. Really bad jokes.
Oh yeah, also we already got enough "OH MY GOD AM I GENETICALLY EVIL" stuff. That's not what the character is about.

[Superlad93]

And I never did say my comment was directed toward you.we have been through this subject enough,and we both know where the other stands,so no need to go over it again.

Just wanted to be clear in case my first post was too jumbled that's all.

[Ascended]

Ah but that's very simple, because Superman is Myx's best and most famous trick. Also Mrs. N has a soft spot for the hero and the nostalgia of her relationship (along with the maternal bond she had with Clark) with him. Also Superman's strength as a concept holds great weight and almost shamanic power in the 5th D. There's probably a voweless version of the word Superman in the 5th D. If you remember the 5thD is outside of time so they've already seen the importance of Superman to all of creation.

I don't see why their relationship is null at this point. Simply because time has past doesn't make her any less special to him or linked to him. She was the Merlin to his young Arthur. Honestly I don't see why just having a link to the 5th D isn't enough. It's not like cadmus was any more ingrained within Superman than the 5th D was.

But ultimately I must admit, I was only loosely thinking of the new 52 continuity and just cheery picking lol Some more mulling over might have me come up with something. BUT I'm keeping mama Nyxly What about the original Superboy (Kon-el) gave a better tether IYO? So I can know where to start.

Well, Cadmus was more ingrained with the mythos because of its use of old characters like the Newsboy Legion and Guardian. They also dealt more directly with the rest of the mythos, like Lex and Lois and the Planet. The 5D is just this place that we almost never ever see that Myx calls home. I think, as you have it written out, it works well enough. But I think making this character and the 5D as a whole a little more inter-connected and important to the overall franchise would benefit everyone.

Good point. It was more homage but that was probably doing too much. How's this:

Take away the orphan angle and make it an after school deal for this kid. It's part-time jobs, playing pretend, and after school activities (sports, clubs, community service) all rolled into one and heightened. Single dad. Mr. N is that missing maternal figure for him. There's no magic word or transformation. The kid actually instead had to sit through a bunch of bureaucratic paper work. I'd make the 5D magic tempered by rules and regulations. It's no different from science in that things don't just happen. Play up the idea that our world slows things down like fly paper. It's 5D physics. The laws of cause and effect made into satire and a riff on the Superman universe's affinity for science and shyness to magic using white collar bureaucracy.

I think that's better, less removed from Shazam. You know how sensitive those fans are.

The white collar bureaucracy is an interesting angle. Could be lots of fun, though would it end up rubbing against the full throttle, imagination-is-the-limit kind of thing you're building? I like the idea of layering the 5D with a lot of satire, that seems almost like a requirement now you mention it, but having to sit and fill out paperwork all the time might be counterproductive. Or would he just have to fill it out the once at the beginning? Because that could be fun, just seeing this kid's excitement over getting powers slowly die out as he signs and dates over and over and over again.....

highest compliment you can pay me, sir. Thank you for the kind words and honest critiques. It's a half backed idea that I've just been toying with off and on for like 3 days, but I thought it could be fun and wanted to see what others made of it.

Dude, your half baked ideas are generally better than all of the Super-titles from 2001 to 2010. I enjoy batting ideas around with you and the rest of the usual suspects.

I think it's the simplicity of being an invulnerable kid with super strength. The idea of being a running and jumping kinetic kid who's impervious to concrete scrapes, grass burns, and stubbed toes. Kid's are beings that are expressing themselves primarily through the physical--through their bodies. I think Superman's simple yet imaginative powers lend themselves best to kids. I feel like it's less fun for a kid to have to explain his powers while in uses and it slows the energy of things down. The other option is the ability to imagine whatever they like into being. See Hickman's Franklin Richards for that one done right. You don't have explain it, and when you do it's so matter a fact and simple. But I actually rather Superman's set for the physicality of it. I'd even keep flying out of it. He is imagination's physical agent so I figure he should be largely physical.

That's not to say he can't use gadgets though. Remember all the time when you were a kid and you'd pretend boxes were space ships and sticks were ray guys? Why not give him these ridiculous gadgets that look like nothing you've ever seen and look like they shouldn't function but they do. He wouldn't be Batman and they'd only be situational

Ah. Okay then. Sold.

Especially if you kept the idea of "this cardboard paper towel roll is now a ray gun!" and it works, because, you know, 5D. I think a sprinkling of that is just what you need to bring out the makes-no-sense joy of 5th dimensional physics.

Only thing I'd suggest is keeping "magic" out. This isnt "magic" because Superman's not a magic character, this is quantum engineering from a higher plane of existence. It's science. Really strange science that breaks all of our 3 dimensional rules and looks a lot like magic. But its science.

[Thor-Ul]

I was to protest against the idea of a 5d Superboy but then I remember than there was a Supergirl (and a good Supergirl) than it was an angel for a lot of numbers, so yeah, it could work. But now it must be remembered than in the collective consciousness Superboy is either: the young Superman or the clone of Superman. Another different superboy than is a departure from the stablised characters doesn't seem wise.

But the proposal of Superlad93 also pose an interesting question: What is Superboy about? Which is his "raison d'etre"?

Superboy is about a boy who has to live to the shadow of a legend. "The Legend". That is a constant, even in the silver age. With his adventures with the Legion, Clark has to live to the shadow of himself and to Kon, the clon, he has to live to the shadow of his original template. For both main concepts, Superman is the ideal to which they "should" be and that was a source of inner conflict for the characters. Hold the "S" is a path to fun but also come with a burden. They are a boy fighting to be seen as the equals of a The Man to the world and to themselves.


That is a trait than every incarnation has in common. Even the elseworlds version have this trait, either embrace it or rejecting it. Even alternative versions in other editorials understand that (Invincible, in his conception). Under this light, even if I don't like the idea, Jon Sam White seems a good candidate to new Superboy if DC is going to go away from Kon. But this seems opposite to all the Didio discourse about simple origins for characters (and which has been Didio excuse to bring back all the silver age characters and marginalize characters like Wally West. But that is another subject). But also, in his moment Chris Kent also was seen as a good Superboy candidate: he also had to look out to the shadow of a legend. So who knows.

And even if the idea of Superlad93 is good, it lacks of the "Superboy" aspect. You could call him Superboy, but it would be Superboy only in name, which you could change easly and it would be still the same character. The Superman-Superboy relationship is non-existent, is something than must be worked in

[Ascended]

And even if the idea of Superlad93 is good, it lacks of the "Superboy" aspect. You could call him Superboy, but it would be Superboy only in name, which you could change easly and it would be still the same character. The Superman-Superboy relationship is non-existent, is something than must be worked in

You have some valid points. As for the bolded, that was the case when The Kid was introduced back in the 90's too. There were a lot of people who said that just because this kid was cloned in Superman's likeness, that doesnt mean much. Wrong costume. Wrong attitude. Wrong haircut. Wrong personality. At the time he wasn't even a proper clone of Superman, but Paul Westfield. The list went on and on. Superlad's idea is like that; the 5D Superboy would have a connection to Superman through the 5D and Mrs. Nylx, but beyond that there isn't anything to tether him to the mythos. But again, Kon had the same problem at first and learning to deal with that shadow was a major part of his story even before Clark came back to life. And over time, he was folded into the mythos more and more deeply.

I agree, the burden of the "S" has to be considered. But I dont think the 5D idea is any more lacking than the "clone of Superman" who has gone on to be a fan favorite for two decades.

Upon a little more thought (kicked the idea around while running errands today) I think that this kid might be better served by having a connection to Superman beyond the source of his powers. Maybe he's Perry White's nephew, or maybe he's really a manifestation of Nylx's desire for a "proper" son made in Clark's image and one of the big secrets is that he and his family aren't "real" in that they were created by the 5th dimension? I dunno. Just a couple random thoughts Im tossing out here.

[stephens2177]

"In name only" depends on if you are creating a new superboy,or trying to rehabilitate long from the mess DC has allowed him to become.

I want the "next kon" we see act and be way more grounded,and human.I want him to act like a real person,and I want him to have flaws,besides just being a emotionless weapon he is portrayed now.

[Thor-Ul]

You have some valid points. As for the bolded, that was the case when The Kid was introduced back in the 90's too. There were a lot of people who said that just because this kid was cloned in Superman's likeness, that doesnt mean much. Wrong costume. Wrong attitude. Wrong haircut. Wrong personality. At the time he wasn't even a proper clone of Superman, but Paul Westfield. The list went on and on. Superlad's idea is like that; the 5D Superboy would have a connection to Superman through the 5D and Mrs. Nylx, but beyond that there isn't anything to tether him to the mythos. But again, Kon had the same problem at first and learning to deal with that shadow was a major part of his story even before Clark came back to life. And over time, he was folded into the mythos more and more deeply.

True. Remember than even in the beggining kon-El was conceived as a potential replacement. And it was Superman himself who give him name. Twice. Superman was the pattern to which compare Kon and the fun was to see how much different they were. As the adult Superman was the model to which compare the Silver Age Superboy. It's more than just "a boy with Superman powers", is about "a boy who will become (a) Superman". The origin can be changed (clone, alternate universe, magically created) but the idea of a boy who could grow to become a Superman must be keep.

I agree, the burden of the "S" has to be considered. But I dont think the 5D idea is any more lacking than the "clone of Superman" who has gone on to be a fan favorite for two decades.

I concede that point. But it was a long time work.

Upon a little more thought (kicked the idea around while running errands today) I think that this kid might be better served by having a connection to Superman beyond the source of his powers. Maybe he's Perry White's nephew, or maybe he's really a manifestation of Nylx's desire for a "proper" son made in Clark's image and one of the big secrets is that he and his family aren't "real" in that they were created by the 5th dimension? I dunno. Just a couple random thoughts Im tossing out here.

If the earthangel Supergirl worked, any idea can work with the right writer, creator and approach. Including the rebuilding of Kon.