Daken or Raze

[Coatl]

I think this is the thing about Daken, that his fans like him because he's so terrible. He's a bad, terrible person who you don't really mind seeing get beat up and ruined because he just sort of deserves it.

Well you kind of nailed it, he is an scumbag, not a tortured soul looking for redemption, not the guy who does bad stuff because feels obliged, not a killer looking for excuses for his actions, he is a jerk and proud of it. So he totally deserves 98% of the pain in his life and you cand wince time to time seeing him get his commenpauce, but in the end as much of you like him you know that he deserved it. So it's fun seeing him looking for power, even getting it, but also is fun seeing him defeated.

Mystique raped him at some point when he wasn't in his right state of mind, so that's an easy way to explain him.

But, why in the seven hells would Mystic want a son of Wolverine? all his love interest gets murdered, all his sons had mental issues, and all HER sons hates her. That's basically avoid insulting Wolverine intelligence, to start insulting Mystic far bigger foresight.

[TheCape]

Well you kind of nailed it, he is an scumbag, not a tortured soul looking for redemption, not the guy who does bad stuff because feels obliged, not a killer looking for excuses for his actions, he is a jerk and proud of it. So he totally deserves 98% of the pain in his life and you cand wince time to time seeing him get his commenpauce, but in the end as much of you like him you know that he deserved it. So it's fun seeing him looking for power, even getting it, but also is fun seeing him defeated.



But, why in the seven hells would Mystic want a son of Wolverine? all his love interest gets murdered, all his sons had mental issues, and all HER sons hates her. That's basically avoid insulting Wolverine intelligence, to start insulting Mystic far bigger foresight.

Because she wanted to screw him, she was pissed that he killed her during the Goes to Hell storyline (The Hand resurrected her later) after sending the video to his girlfriend, she declared that she wasn't done with him. So, raising his son and training him to go against him? sure she would do it, wouldn't be the worst thing that she has done in the last decade.

[TheCape]

I think this is the thing about Daken, that his fans like him because he's so terrible. He's a bad, terrible person who you don't really mind seeing get beat up and ruined because he just sort of deserves it.

That's not the problem, i like Adachi from Persona 4 and he is bastard so i can get why people would find a character like Daken appealing, my problem is Confuzzled calling him an anti-hero, he is not, he is a villain, a monster who only good quality is his love for his biological mom (who he never met directly, so how does that work?), Laura and Gabby. Anti-heroes are violent and had done questionable things, but usually they are fighting monster in a setting with a more grey morality or in more extremes cases like Garth Ennis Punisher, they know that they are assholes but they are channeling their worst impulses toward even more horrible people. That isn't Daken, he hurt attacks people out of pettiness and malice, there is nothing about him that put him in that territory, at best he might be tragic villain.

[Shreene]

I think this is the thing about Daken, that his fans like him because he's so terrible. He's a bad, terrible person who you don't really mind seeing get beat up and ruined because he just sort of deserves it.

I Thought that Daken's fan liked him (Raze as well) because he was bisexual...

[Michael Watkins]

Daken could be drawn by Rob Liefeld eating a baby and still not be as lame as Raze.

[Michael Watkins]

I Thought that Daken's fan liked him (Raze as well) because he was bisexual...

it's like 4th or 5th on the top 5 reasons i like Daken. mostly it's his "move b****" line from his solo series. plus he's just sort of cool looking in his dark wolverine costume.

[Coatl]

Because she wanted to screw him, she was pissed that he killed her during the Goes to Hell storyline (The Hand resurrected her later) after sending the video to his girlfriend, she declared that she wasn't done with him. So, raising his son and training him to go against him? sure she would do it, wouldn't be the worst thing that she has done in the last decade.

At this point that's basically a cliche that won't work, Wolverine already has a son who has been raised to hate him, his name is Daken.
Not only Wolverine has been totally able to kill him, but every time gets easier (Also there is the history of the ...red hand? were a ton of his sons and daughter are located and turned against Wolverine, and of course killed by him easily).

Also the plan kind of backfired since, yes, Daken hates Wolverine, but also hates his creators as I have said, Mystique has history having childs who hates her and want her dead, why should she want another one? just for a plot that is surely going to fail or even worse turn against her? no, she is smarter than that.

[TheCape]

At this point that's basically a cliche that won't work, Wolverine already has a son who has been raised to hate him, his name is Daken.
Not only Wolverine has been totally able to kill him, but every time gets easier (Also there is the history of the ...red hand? were a ton of his sons and daughter are located and turned against Wolverine, and of course killed by him easily).

Also the plan kind of backfired since, yes, Daken hates Wolverine, but also hates his creators as I have said, Mystique has history having childs who hates her and want her dead, why should she want another one? just for a plot that is surely going to fail or even worse turn against her? no, she is smarter than that.

Like being cliche stopped a villain before in comic books, especially supposed mastermind. It was called the Red Right Hand (Wolverine vol 4 1-16) a plan that Mystique and Daken were part of. Mystique even has change of heart half way into it.

Smarter than that? i had to disagreed, maybe in the 80s she was, but none of her schemes has ever impressed me since then, she was stupid enough to cross Logan a second time when that ended with her almost being killed and got into a relationship with Creed at all people (wich also ended with a son that Mystique killed eventually).

With that being said, i don't like neither Raze or Daken, both characthers lack any sort of appeal or creative value to me. Neither of their origins or stories are particurlay inspired or well done to me. I give the edge to Daken just because there is a couple of moments with him that i enjoyed, can't say the same about Raze.

[Silver Fang]

Like being cliche stopped a villain before in comic books, especially supposed mastermind. It was called the Red Right Hand (Wolverine vol 4 1-16) a plan that Mystique and Daken were part of. Mystique even has change of heart half way into it.

Smarter than that? i had to disagreed, maybe in the 80s she was, but none of her schemes has ever impressed me since then, she was stupid enough to cross Logan a second time when that ended with her almost being killed and got into a relationship with Creed at all people (wich also ended with a son that Mystique killed eventually).

With that being said, i don't like neither Raze or Daken, both characthers lack any sort of appeal or creative value to me. Neither of their origins or stories are particurlay inspired or well done to me. I give the edge to Daken just because there is a couple of moments with him that i enjoyed, can't say the same about Raze.

To be fair to Mystique, Creed is someone she has under control. He can & do dirty work and then be the scapegoat when she needs an easy out. So he's a good pawn.

Her scheme for X-Black also worked without a problem. I think only when it comes to characters like Logan, Magneto, and Exodus is she out of her element as all 3 of them have embarrassed her down numerous pegs. Graydon caused a bit of trouble, but he was nothing she couldn't handle. Obviously lol Hard to say who'd come out on top with her vs. Daken. Both are similar types of characters. But she can handle her children.

[TheCape]

To be fair to Mystique, Creed is someone she has under control. He can & do dirty work and then be the scapegoat when she needs an easy out. So he's a good pawn.

Her scheme for X-Black also worked without a problem. I think only when it comes to characters like Logan, Magneto, and Exodus is she out of her element as all 3 of them have embarrassed her down numerous pegs. Graydon caused a bit of trouble, but he was nothing she couldn't handle. Obviously lol Hard to say who'd come out on top with her vs. Daken. Both are similar types of characters. But she can handle her children.

Fair enough, especially about X-Men Black, i haven't read that one.

[Silver Fang]

Fair enough, especially about X-Men Black, i haven't read that one.

You didn't miss anything. lol I only skimmed it when I heard fans complaining about her depiction.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I would never argue that either are well developed, but I'd say that Raze wins 'actual potential' material by miles and miles.

His upbringing at least explains his issues. His powers, shapeshifting combined with tracking, make for great paranoia fuel. He could be anyone and not even his father would know, because he can negate that which gives away most shapeshifters. It's a good starting point, at least.

Daken? He's a cliche a mile long. Depraved bi-sexual with Rapey powers, with barely justified mommy issues and an inability to pull off any villain scheme. His method of 'manipulation' in Dark Reign was basically sexual harassment and I find it hard to look at Daken and not wonder WTF he's been doing these last 60 years. Has he accomplished anything besides getting his dad to kill him?

Daken's character will do basically anything, thus nothing he does is surprising.

[Triniking1234]

Fair enough, especially about X-Men Black, i haven't read that one.

Blue bitch ruins people's day.