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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldschool View Post
    Bill Mantlo is my #1 pick among "forgotten" or even less-high profile creators for Spidey. His PP:SSM is very good and often great but he also wrote quite a few issues of Marvel Team-Up during that title's 1970's heyday. It really is a shame his work is not referenced more often and I urge any Spidey fan unfamiliar with his work to seek out his work on PP:SSM and MTU.
    From right around #75-100, PPTSSM was every bit as good as ASM.

    You not only had the Ock/Owl Gang War, but the Silvermane/Kingpin war (with Cloak and Dagger as well as Spot!).

    It's a bit of a cheat, but I think Gerry Conway 2.0 is 'forgotten' in spite of the fact that his Web of Spider-Man and Spectacular Spider-Man work was generally better than his original ASM run.

    Yeah, I said it! (Please don't drift to controversial opinions thread...)

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    From right around #75-100, PPTSSM was every bit as good as ASM.

    You not only had the Ock/Owl Gang War, but the Silvermane/Kingpin war (with Cloak and Dagger as well as Spot!).

    It's a bit of a cheat, but I think Gerry Conway 2.0 is 'forgotten' in spite of the fact that his Web of Spider-Man and Spectacular Spider-Man work was generally better than his original ASM run.

    Yeah, I said it! (Please don't drift to controversial opinions thread...)
    Have to agree--I even really liked the Answer as a villain in his two-parter, and I love the Spot.

    i also thought Conway's Spec and Web runs were great when they were coming out.

  3. #33
    Fantastic Member Ozymandias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesedique View Post
    Have to agree--I even really liked the Answer as a villain in his two-parter, and I love the Spot.
    Those two were created by Al Milgrom.

  4. #34
    Mighty Member oldschool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    From right around #75-100, PPTSSM was every bit as good as ASM.

    You not only had the Ock/Owl Gang War, but the Silvermane/Kingpin war (with Cloak and Dagger as well as Spot!).

    It's a bit of a cheat, but I think Gerry Conway 2.0 is 'forgotten' in spite of the fact that his Web of Spider-Man and Spectacular Spider-Man work was generally better than his original ASM run.

    Yeah, I said it! (Please don't drift to controversial opinions thread...)
    Hmmm…..I would have to revisit Conway's return engagement on Web and SSM. I have them all and recall them being good runs that fell short of great with a few exceptions (the JJJ/Chameleon story was superb as was the Tombstone/Robbie arc). But, like I said, it's been awhile since I read them all; I would need to catch up on them before I agree or disagree that Conway 2.0 was better than the much more famous Conway run.

  5. #35
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
    Those sound like excuses, more than reasons. Stern had even less "power" and the ending of his run was also out of his hands, neither of which precluded said run from being the best.
    Stern had more original characters, though, right? Especially the Hobgoblin. I think that makes Stern a more famous (not forgotten) writer. DeFalco's stuff was really good, in my opinion, but his run had nothing in it that made him famous.
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  6. #36
    Astonishing Member whiteshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldschool View Post
    Bill Mantlo is my #1 pick among "forgotten" or even less-high profile creators for Spidey. His PP:SSM is very good and often great but he also wrote quite a few issues of Marvel Team-Up during that title's 1970's heyday. It really is a shame his work is not referenced more often and I urge any Spidey fan unfamiliar with his work to seek out his work on PP:SSM and MTU.
    Some of the first Spider-Man comics i read when i was a kid,were pocket comics that reprinted several stories in each issue.
    So in one of those comics there were comics of Amazing Spider-Man and Spectacular Spider-Man.The Bill Mantlo stories were to me as good as the stories of Amazing Spider-Man.
    The MTU stories he wrote were quite good,i remember a really good story arc between Marvel Team Up#48 to 51 that featured Iron Man and Doctor Strange that i still think is one of the best stories of this series.
    I am a fan of the stories he wrote for Hulk and Rom as well.
    So yeah,it is a shame that Bill Mantlo gets to be not as much mentioned as other creators of Spider-Man comics.

  7. #37
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    Posting in the Black Cat thread made me think of it, but Roberto Aguirre Sacassa had a great run on Sensational Spider-Man: "Feral", "Deadly Foes of Peter Parker", "Last Temptation of Eddie Brock", the Mr Hyde story. His final issue on the series, right before OMD, was profound and thought provoking. RAS is just an all-around great writer.

  8. #38

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    Roberto Aguirre Sacassa is not talked about often, glad you mentioned him Cheese.
    And Jim Mooney is another forgotten name, he did a lot of good stuff for all 3 Spidey titles during the 70s and the 80s. Artists like Al Milgrom, Keith Pollard, Greg Laroque, and even Herb Trimpe took inspiration from his style for their Spider-Man art.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesedique View Post
    I would put Bill Mantlo up for this thread. He's one of the best writers of Spider-Man of the post-Conway era, churning out classic arcs like the first Carrion story and the Owl / Octopus War. But he doesn't get a lot of attention for his Spider-Man work.
    This post is awesome.
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  9. #39
    Fantastic Member Ozymandias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    Stern had more original characters, though, right? Especially the Hobgoblin. I think that makes Stern a more famous (not forgotten) writer. DeFalco's stuff was really good, in my opinion, but his run had nothing in it that made him famous.
    Did he? DeFalco had The Rose, Puma, The Symbiote, Slyde and Silver Sable, while Stern only introduced The Hobgoblin. It isn't a question of quantity, but quality.

  10. #40
    Mighty Member oldschool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesedique View Post
    Posting in the Black Cat thread made me think of it, but Roberto Aguirre Sacassa had a great run on Sensational Spider-Man: "Feral", "Deadly Foes of Peter Parker", "Last Temptation of Eddie Brock", the Mr Hyde story. His final issue on the series, right before OMD, was profound and thought provoking. RAS is just an all-around great writer.
    wow, yeah---good pick on Sarcassa! Really enjoyed his stuff; it was definitely on the dark side but very distinctive and gave the Sensational title a real identity there for a while. Would not mind seeing more from him.

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
    Did he? DeFalco had The Rose, Puma, The Symbiote, Slyde and Silver Sable, while Stern only introduced The Hobgoblin. It isn't a question of quantity, but quality.
    DeFalco also had Black Fox.

    Stern did have a different innovation pitting Spider-Man against Marvel mainstays like Juggernaut and Mr. Hyde for the first time, and expanding on the origins of Vulture and Mysterio.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
    Those sound like excuses, more than reasons. Stern had even less "power" and the ending of his run was also out of his hands, neither of which precluded said run from being the best.
    DeFalco would not have topped Stern if his run had ended differently, but he was let go at an inconvenient time (right when the Gang War storyline tying up years of subplots in a five part arc kicked off.)

    And the departure was based on a misunderstanding.

    I had been told, at least a dozen times, to fire Tom. Tom was late. Tom was busy. Tom was distracted. And now, Tom was not doing his best on Spider-Man. Inker Rubinstein quit, annoyed that DeFalco and Frenz were habitually erratic. I scheduled fill in after fill in, affecting sales. Tom and I planned one schedule fix after another, but these efforts were routinely torpedoed by Shooter himself, who'd suddenly send Tom here or make Tom drop what he was doing and work on thus and so. All the while complaining about our near-misses (as I said, I never, not once missed shipping) with Tom, urging me to get rid of him. It was Jim himself who was playing havoc with Tom's writing schedule.

    Finally, I came up with an idea: Sensational Spider-Man by DeFalco/Frenz. This would, likely, have been a quarterly special, like Spider-Man Unlimited or some such. Tom and Ron could do as much Spider-Man as they wanted and were capable of doing, and we'd be off the hook for the monthly deadline. Tom and Ron continue to do the work they love, I get out of Shooter's line of fire. I told Jim I was taking Tom off of AMAZING, and creating this other animal for him and Ron. Jim said, fine.

    Tom took the news very hard. It ended our friendship, and, I am told, Tom saw Jim's hand n this and threatened to quit. A stunned Shooter appeared at my door the next day, and I knew I was about to be fired. He asked me, and I quote, "Why'd you do that? [fire Tom]" I just stared at him as he stammered and stared at the floor and shook his head and exhaled, and I felt like I was in The Godfather II, the victim of some macabre Corleone plot. What the blessed hell was this man talking about?!? I cleared this all with him before I did it. More to the point, for months he'd been after me to do something about Tom.

    I said, "Because you told me to. We talked about this beforehand." To which Jim replied, and I'll never forget this, "Yeah— but I never thought you'd actually do it."
    DeFalco would not have topped Stern, but he might have a slightly better reputation if his run had concluded in a more satisfactory way.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
    Those two were created by Al Milgrom.
    I'm aware--David Walton was talking about PPTSSM #75-100, which is what I was referring to in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Force League Unlimited View Post
    This post is awesome.
    Thank you kind sir.

    Quote Originally Posted by oldschool View Post
    wow, yeah---good pick on Sarcassa! Really enjoyed his stuff; it was definitely on the dark side but very distinctive and gave the Sensational title a real identity there for a while. Would not mind seeing more from him.
    Would like to see more Spidey from him as well, but he's moved on to writing for Broadway and movies. Though I believe he still does comic book work.

    A new .1 series by RAS could be great. It could be horror-themed which he does very well.

  13. #43
    Mighty Member oldschool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesedique View Post


    Would like to see more Spidey from him as well, but he's moved on to writing for Broadway and movies. Though I believe he still does comic book work.

    A new .1 series by RAS could be great. It could be horror-themed which he does very well.
    Yeah, and I know I have said this before, but what I miss about the Spidey line today is that there isn't an opportunity for a different "flavor" or "take" on Pete as Spidey. It's just Slott---who I happen to think does a great job----but that's it. All the many other titles are alternate Spider-Men and Women. I miss having a satellite title or two like Spectacular of Sensational where a different creative team can tell their stories with an approach different from the main title.

  14. #44
    Fantastic Member Ozymandias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesedique View Post
    I'm aware--David Walton was talking about PPTSSM #75-100, which is what I was referring to in general.
    I know, but since he was replying to oldschool's post on Mantlo, it was pertinent to clarify, that PPTSSM #75-100 weren't all written by him. I chose to reply to you, instead of him, because you were highlighting two characters, which weren't created by Mantlo.

  15. #45
    Fantastic Member Ozymandias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    DeFalco also had Black Fox.
    DeFalco would not have topped Stern, but he might have a slightly better reputation if his run had concluded in a more satisfactory way.
    I thought Black Fox was from Michelinie's run on WOS, but it was the other way around.

    Could DeFalco have a slightly better reputation, if his run had concluded in a more satisfactory way? Possibly, but he's so far off Stern, that it doesn't really matter, IMO. And both had about the same amount of "power" (creative freedom), so that's not a factor, which was my whole point.

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