Forgotten Creators

[David Walton]

Hmmm…..I would have to revisit Conway's return engagement on Web and SSM. I have them all and recall them being good runs that fell short of great with a few exceptions (the JJJ/Chameleon story was superb as was the Tombstone/Robbie arc). But, like I said, it's been awhile since I read them all; I would need to catch up on them before I agree or disagree that Conway 2.0 was better than the much more famous Conway run.

You know, I'll be honest, I haven't revisited most of Conway's second stretch on the Spider-Man books in years. But those years are burned into my memory in a good way.

The JJJ/Chameleon story was a real standout. It was almost undeniably the best JJJ story ever written until "Under the Moustache," and there's still a case to be made for it.

The Tombstone/Robbie stuff was fantastic, edge of your seat drama. But don't forget Glory Grant and the Lobos Brothers! And some very cool one offs featuring the Punisher (and a villain called the Persuader), or John Walker Cap and the Tarantula.

But if you want a quick way to see how much Conway improved as a writer, check out the Carrion story from TSSM 149:

[oldschool]

You know, I'll be honest, I haven't revisited most of Conway's second stretch on the Spider-Man books in years. But those years are burned into my memory in a good way.

The JJJ/Chameleon story was a real standout. It was almost undeniably the best JJJ story ever written until "Under the Moustache," and there's still a case to be made for it.

The Tombstone/Robbie stuff was fantastic, edge of your seat drama. But don't forget Glory Grant and the Lobos Brothers! And some very cool one offs featuring the Punisher (and a villain called the Persuader), or John Walker Cap and the Tarantula.

But if you want a quick way to see how much Conway improved as a writer, check out the Carrion story from TSSM 149:

You have motivated me to dig out those issues and give them another read! Will have to do so soon and circle back 'round....

On another note, I agree that both "Behind The Moustache" and the JJJ/Chameleon story can compete for Best JJJ story ever told but I will throw one more into the mix to round out my Top 3 favorite JJJ stories of all time: Peter David's absolutely superb "Point Of View" from Web of Spider-Man #13. It rarely gets mentioned because Web was a title that never seemed to find it's footing and veered from writer to writer and just never had the spotlight BUT within it's run there are some definite jewels and this is one of them. Also one of the greatest one-and-done Spidey tales ever IMO.


web 13.jpg

[David Walton]

I remember that cover, but for the life of me, I can't recall the story! Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of my old back issues, and so far as I know it's not available digitally. I guess I'll have to see if I can find a copy online for a reasonable price. Maybe I'll just go with an Essentials volume.

Agreed about Web's lack of direction. There were some real gems in there from time to time, but it was the most dispensable of the Spider-books for most of its existence.

But man, those first three issues were promising!

[Scott Taylor]

DeFalco would not have topped Stern, but he might have a slightly better reputation if his run had concluded in a more satisfactory way.

That is essentially what I was getting at, but you said it more succinctly.

[Speed Force League Unlimited]

Did he? DeFalco had The Rose, Puma, The Symbiote, Slyde and Silver Sable, while Stern only introduced The Hobgoblin. It isn't a question of quantity, but quality.

The idea of making the symbiote alive was a joke Stern made, and they took seriously.

[Ozymandias]

The idea of making the symbiote alive was a joke Stern made, and they took seriously.

Reading ASM #252, it's clear that the idea was already in the air, just looking at the pictures (plot) one gets the impression that the leap from there to a sentient entity, was a small one. A joke from Stern? That's totally plausible, but the fact that DeFalco would use it for a subplot that ran for several issues, is clear indication of the difference between the two of them, as a writer.

[Metamorphosis]

You have motivated me to dig out those issues and give them another read! Will have to do so soon and circle back 'round....

On another note, I agree that both "Behind The Moustache" and the JJJ/Chameleon story can compete for Best JJJ story ever told but I will throw one more into the mix to round out my Top 3 favorite JJJ stories of all time: Peter David's absolutely superb "Point Of View" from Web of Spider-Man #13. It rarely gets mentioned because Web was a title that never seemed to find it's footing and veered from writer to writer and just never had the spotlight BUT within it's run there are some definite jewels and this is one of them. Also one of the greatest one-and-done Spidey tales ever IMO.


web 13.jpg

This was a great Web Of issue, and so were the two issues right before it, one written by Mantlo and one written by PAD.

The Chameleon issue by Conway is also one of his high points. I even liked his run of issues during the Cosmic Powers storyline.

[Mister Mets]

Something that seems odd now about the Spider-Man comics is that Peter David wrote Web of Spider-Man #13, but did not write Spectacular Spider-Man #114 the next month, even though Spectacular was his title.

The logical approach would be to move the Spec 114 story to Web 13.

However, these stories were good fits for the identity of the title. Spec 114 was a story about Spider-Man dealing with crime.

That's something line editor James Owsley deserves credit for. He was mentioned on this list as a writer, but he was also a hell of an editor, pushing for books with unique hooks. Amazing Spider-Man had Peter and MJ. Web was initially about the rest of the supporting cast, but then became a series about Peter's travels as an international photographer (Spider-Man VS Wolverine was the best comic of the era, and had a similar theme.) And Spectacular was essentially Spider-Man interacting with the crime seen in cop dramas.

[oldschool]

Something that seems odd now about the Spider-Man comics is that Peter David wrote Web of Spider-Man #13, but did not write Spectacular Spider-Man #114 the next month, even though Spectacular was his title.

The logical approach would be to move the Spec 114 story to Web 13.

However, these stories were good fits for the identity of the title. Spec 114 was a story about Spider-Man dealing with crime.

That's something line editor James Owsley deserves credit for. He was mentioned on this list as a writer, but he was also a hell of an editor, pushing for books with unique hooks. Amazing Spider-Man had Peter and MJ. Web was initially about the supporting cast, but then became a series about Peter's travels as an international photographer (Spider-Man VS Wolverine was the best comic of the era, and had a similar theme.) And Spectacular was essentially Spider-Man interacting with the crime seen in cop dramas.

Great point; I remember buying those issues at the time and wondering the same thing but being too young to really suss it out----in any event, those are certainly forgotten issues that deserve hunting down (they are inexpensive) to enjoy.

[Speed Force League Unlimited]

Something that seems odd now about the Spider-Man comics is that Peter David wrote Web of Spider-Man #13, but did not write Spectacular Spider-Man #114 the next month, even though Spectacular was his title.

The logical approach would be to move the Spec 114 story to Web 13.

I noticed something I did not expect when I was binge reading Spider-Man titles, Bill and Peter had the Spectacular title on bi-monthly basis for a while.
Bill wrote the even numbered issues, I think 120 was his last one.

[Metamorphosis]

I noticed something I did not expect when I was binge reading Spider-Man titles, Bill and Peter had the Spectacular title on bi-monthly basis for a while.
Bill wrote the even numbered issues, I think 120 was his last one.

Which was a great story by Mantlo that everyone should read, with some kickass, kinetic artwork by Keith Giffen:

[Metamorphosis]

I thought of a couple truly forgotten creators on Spider-Man.

Reginald Hudlin, who had a brief run following Millar on Marvel Knights: SM.

And then there's Terry Kavanaugh, the man who had the idea to bring back that crazy Clone from the 1970's. I'm just gonna leave that there.

[JTait]

I thought of a couple truly forgotten creators on Spider-Man.

Reginald Hudlin, who had a brief run following Millar on Marvel Knights: SM.

And then there's Terry Kavanaugh, the man who had the idea to bring back that crazy Clone from the 1970's. I'm just gonna leave that there.

Hudlin's brief run was very forgettable, but was very unlucky to have to follow Mark Millar's popular 12 issue stint. I always thought that it was a shame that he wasn't given more time.

I would argue that Kavanagh is infamous for the F.A.C.A.D.E storyline.

[Mister Mets]

I thought of a couple truly forgotten creators on Spider-Man.

Reginald Hudlin, who had a brief run following Millar on Marvel Knights: SM.

And then there's Terry Kavanaugh, the man who had the idea to bring back that crazy Clone from the 1970's. I'm just gonna leave that there.

I think these guys were forgotten for a reason.

[oldschool]

I think these guys were forgotten for a reason.

You beat me to it; those guys truly defined forgettable writing without being offensive.