Batman and Robin Eternal #5 Preview

[heyevaxx]

Btw. Tim last official stats were 5’6”, 145 lbs. according to the "DC Comics Ultimate Character Guide" from 2011.

Thanks for this. It's a much more reasonable weight for the Tim I remember than DC Wikia's 5'05" 125lb which is a bit light for a super fit teen.

DC has listed Cass Cain 5'5" and 110lbs or 127lbs. The 127 is much more reasonable for someone so fit. Camren Bicondova, Gotham's Selina Kyle, is 5'2" 110lbs IRL and she's a dancer, gym rat, distance runner who can do dozens of straight leg push ups at a time. Stretching her 3" and not changing the weight is off. 5'5" 127lbs is great for Cass.

[heyevaxx]

Did anyone else notice another Jean-Paul Valley tease in BRE05? Coupled with the tease of Jean-P... being on the list of Mother's children in BRE01, I'm pretty sure my beloved Jean-Paul Valley is returning as Azrael. This would be great since Cass and Jean-Paul were my fave 80/90s comic discoveries.

The Order Of Saint Dumas in Batman and Robin Eternal 01 2015-12

[Aahz]

Thanks for this. It's a much more reasonable weight for the Tim I remember than DC Wikia's 5'05" 125lb which is a bit light for a super fit teen.

I think this were stats from his time as Robin (and were never updated), the "DC Comics Ultimate Character Guide" had him as Red Robin and Damian as Robin.

[JasonTodd428]

Did anyone else notice another Jean-Paul Valley tease in BRE05? Coupled with the tease of Jean-P... being on the list of Mother's children in BRE01, I'm pretty sure my beloved Jean-Paul Valley is returning as Azrael. This would be great since Cass and Jean-Paul were my fave 80/90s comic discoveries.

The Order Of Saint Dumas in Batman and Robin Eternal 01 2015-12

I noticed that too and I'm waiting for JPV return as well. Azrael was one of my favorites before the reboot and I'm really curious about what he will be like now.

[Grayson - The Dark Heir]

Did anyone else notice another Jean-Paul Valley tease in BRE05? Coupled with the tease of Jean-P... being on the list of Mother's children in BRE01, I'm pretty sure my beloved Jean-Paul Valley is returning as Azrael. This would be great since Cass and Jean-Paul were my fave 80/90s comic discoveries.

I did, too. I mean, Tynion actually has said that there will be more new characters coming back, and I always took that to mean JPV after the tease in #1. Plus, and this is a Gotham spoiler but it should be fairly obvious anyways, spoilers:

Azrael and the St. Dumas are going to appear, probably as the big bads this season

end of spoilers. I just hope, after he shows up, we finally get to the intersting parts of this series. My optimism is dead. This issue wasn't even bad, I thought it was pretty okay, but I just can't do it anymore. I've given up. I'm not liking the art, I don't like hte plot, and the writers', well, writing just isn't enough to turn things around for me. Maybe next issue with Daniel on art will be better?

Also, wasn't some villain named "The Sculptor" supposed to show up or is that further down the line. Seriously, Orphan is such a joke, I hope he just gets replaced. The writers on this series were talking about how many new and fresh villains they're going to be introducing, and so far, they haven't done any of that. If I was a writer, I would never try to use Orphan in my story. As for Mother, once this story is over, if the writers don't give her a way of being able to fight again at the same scale, she'll turn out to be a one-time villain, too. And then this series will go down as kinda useless. Man, I'm so much harder on this book, now.

[AUScowboy]

I enjoyed this weeks issue, the art wasnt as bad as some people have claimed IMO. Im thinking that the Order of St. Dumas will be closely connected with the whole Mother story in general. With such a deliberate scene last issue, im sure we'll see a lot more of Tim being manipulated by Mother. Really enjoyed the flashback intro too, between that and Cass, im sold on this book no matter what for a while at least.

And again, i really havent hated any of the artists so far. You should expect lower tier art on a weekly book like this, anybody complaining is just being kinda unrealistic lol. I actually think this guy did a decent capullo style for the flashback scene with Dick and Bats on the roof across from that church.

Bring on Mother, The Order of St. Dumas, and most of all, more of those early era flashbacks! We really need a LOTDK style book that explores that kinda stuff, c'mon DC!

[heyevaxx]

Is that Cass? Seeley said that she was about 12/13 in Eternal?

Seeley said Cassandra Cain was 12/13 in Batman Eternal or Batman and Robin Eternal? Do you recall where he talked about this?

pre flashpoint she was around Jasons age, and roughly 2 years older than Tim. If they keep it like this she is probably something between 18 and 20 now.

Crossing Flashpoint means a completely new Cassandra Cain so her age relationship to Jason and Tim can be whatever they want for NewCass.

She's drawn shorter than Harp and Cass, maybe about as tall as their eyebrows. I know, I know, there are short old people but in this context size could relate to age.

Tim calls her a girl in BRE03 but he was talking down to her pretty bad so this could just be him being demeaning.

Before Tim was being a jerk to Cassie, he said in BRE02: All I saw was the guy hit the ground running, and the girl follow. Girl, not woman.

In BRE03 Jason says: I can handle a ninety pound girl. But this is Jason and he'd probably call a 120lb 25 year old he was about to fight a girl.

In BRE02 Dick says to Steph: There's a girl, all in black-- Later he says to Tim: Did you "monitor" the girl? Not a woman or young woman, but girl. And unlike Tim (and Jason), Dick has been level headed and mature. I don't think he'd talk down about Cass and call her a girl if she was 18 or 20.

Lastly, in BRE01 Dick says: You don't want to do this, kid.

That's 5 girls and a kid. I think it safe to say NewCass is currently under 18.

If Seeley said 12/13, my hunch is she's 13 years old "several years ago" and 16, maybe 17, in the current timeframe.

Considering the artists aren't consistent with sizes and there's no differentiation in Robin sizes, I'm not surprised that 13 year old Cass and 16 year old Cass look similar or the same. I do think the face of "several years ago" Cass was drawn very pretty and younger looking. But her overall size is hard to tell apart.

Btw, OldCass debuted in Batman 567 at 17 IIRC.

[Aahz]

Tim calls her a girl in BRE03 but he was talking down to her pretty bad so this could just be him being demeaning.

Before Tim was being a jerk to Cassie, he said in BRE02: All I saw was the guy hit the ground running, and the girl follow. Girl, not woman.

In BRE03 Jason says: I can handle a ninety pound girl. But this is Jason and he'd probably call a 120lb 25 year old he was about to fight a girl.

In BRE02 Dick says to Steph: There's a girl, all in black-- Later he says to Tim: Did you "monitor" the girl? Not a women or young women, but girl. And unlike Tim (and Jason), Dick has been level headed and mature. I don't think he'd talk down about Cass and call her a girl if she was 18 or 20.

Lastly, in BRE01 Dick says: You don't want to do this, kid.

That's 5 girls and a kid. I think it safe to say NewCass is currently under 18.

Babara is 21 and still Batgirl. And and estimating the age of someone just by looking is not so easy. But I don't think that they would make her much younger than Harper/Steph/Tim so she is probably between 16 and 18.

[bat_girl_cc]

I noticed that too and I'm waiting for JPV return as well. Azrael was one of my favorites before the reboot and I'm really curious about what he will be like now.

Same here.

[Nite-Wing]

I'm sure someone will say Cass' age at some point in this run to make things less confusing.
Tim for instance is 16 now so I assume he's only been red robin for a year or two

[Nix Uotan]

Very happy with the Order of St. Dumas possibly returning.

[HellHere]

Seeley sais Cassandra Cain was 12/13 in Batman Eternal or Batman and Robin Eternal? Do you recall where he talked about this?

Cass wasn't in Batman Eternal.

It was his twitter feed, so he might not be correct, though you'd think they'd clear something like that up when the story was beinb set.

[heyevaxx]

It was his twitter feed, so he might not be correct, though you'd think they'd clear something like that up when the story was beinb set.

Thanks! This is just what I was looking for.

Angie ‏@angieindmorning 10:02 PM - 22 Oct 2015
How old is Cass supposed to be in BRE? Pre-reboot she was around Jason's age & a little older than Tim. Did that stick?

Tim Seeley @HackinTimSeeley 7:38 AM - 23 Oct 2015
I think she's like 12 or 13.

I really, really hope he means she 12 or 13 in the "several years ago" flashback. If she's currently 12 or 13, that's too young for my vision of the character. She sure looks like a 16-18 year old small young woman in her pics.

[Godlike13]

Oh hey, I forgot to ask. Who's scripting the next issue?

Ok, so I looked it up. Dammit if Dick and Tim go, Dick is screwed.

[Grayson - The Dark Heir]

It was his twitter feed, so he might not be correct, though you'd think they'd clear something like that up when the story was beinb set.

I really, really hope he means she 12 or 13 in the "several years ago" flashback. If she's currently 12 or 13, that's too young for my vision of the character. She sure looks like a 16-18 year old small young woman in her pics.

16 year old Tim is drawn to be 30 in 2 of the 5 issues in this book, in 2 others he looks 20. You'd think they would've cleared that up with the artist.