Batman and Robin Eternal #5 Preview

[Tony Stark]

I'm not saying there are no big 16 year olds but in contrast to the old Tim Drake, the new one is very big. And there's a shot, I think in BRE04, showing Dick/Tim/Jase all the same height and build. Big and muscley. I wish they'd show so variation in the Robin's size.

I would love to see the artists do this more as well.

[Nite-Wing]

You rank importance by who appears the most in Batman(the main title)
Cass hasn't shown up there yet so she is low on the totem pole

[godisawesome]

I'm not sure that those people are really his parents at all. First off according to this continuity Tim's last name isn't even Drake and he only took up that name after his parents went into witness protection so why on Earth would his real parents be living in hiding under that name and in Gotham of all place. Second Tim was not supposed to have contact with them at all, that was part of the whole Witness Protection deal, and according to Teen Titans he's been stuck having to watch them live their new lives from afar. As far as we know he's not had any contact with them so it's strange that he would suddenly have been speaking with them.

I believe that the Drakes aren't what they appear to be just as Tim isn't who he appears to be. I think they are more of Mother's children just as Tim is. The whole encounter had "set up" written all over it. That trap infused house was not meant to protect his "parents" but to take out Dick or anyone who dug to deeply into his past. The fact that Tim had endangered his parents in the past also gives him a plausible excuse for having all these elaborate traps built into the house his "parents" live in the event that whomever got to nosy managed to escape. He could simply say he was merely protecting them and anyone would be thrown off the scent.

Man, I really hope you're right that this isn't a red herring; my biggest problem with this issue was that the promise of last issue's cliffhanger was so much more interesting than what we wound up getting here. Tim's the only one of the three "graduate Robins" whose history you could take a hacksaw to for the sake of this story and receive very few complaints from his fanbase.

There's so much that's just goofily stupid about their version of Witness Protection and Tim as an idiotic parody of his old self. It might actually be improved by adding a backstory of abduction and brainwashing.

[JasonTodd428]

Man, I really hope you're right that this isn't a red herring; my biggest problem with this issue was that the promise of last issue's cliffhanger was so much more interesting than what we wound up getting here. Tim's the only one of the three "graduate Robins" whose history you could take a hacksaw to for the sake of this story and receive very few complaints from his fanbase.

There's so much that's just goofily stupid about their version of Witness Protection and Tim as an idiotic parody of his old self. It might actually be improved by adding a backstory of abduction and brainwashing.

There's just to much off here for me to believe that we're dealing with the real "Drakes" in this scenario and Tim has been acting strangely as well. As you said with the state Tim's been in a backstory of abduction and brainwashing would at least make him interesting again since he's certainly not been that since the reboot happened. It would also explain why he's been acting as he has been since that time and I don't see that any fan of his would complain about that if it fixes him in some way. The only problem with my theory though is that if he is one of those designer humans made by Mother then it's a bit to early to show it in my opinion and that could mean this is indeed a "red herring" unless of course they are putting it out now and having the issue seemingly resolved right off only to have it show up later when everything comes to a head.

[Rac7d*]

I'm not saying there are no big 16 year olds but in contrast to the old Tim Drake, the new one is very big. And there's a shot, I think in BRE04, showing Dick/Tim/Jase all the same height and build. Big and muscley. I wish they'd show so variation in the Robin's size.

Its the art I said the same thing in Grayson 12
In his own teen titans book, he ,uch slimmer, shorter, he is only 5'6

Jason is not as big as he was prenew52, but most off the time in book that are not his own he is shown hulking between the other 2
Dick also flip flops from just super fit to superman depend on the artist

I wish it was more consitent

[Noxex]

Wow, i had no idea Tim had a new origin? Where did that come from? On the one hand, His dad being killed in identity crisis is one of the worst things to happen in comics ever, removing something that made him unique.

Why is he called Red Robin in this continuity? (seriously, is there a worse name in all of comics?) Tim will always be "my" Robin, because I started getting into Batman just before he was introduced, but Red Robin didnt even make sense when he actually had been Robin. Plus the name is already kind of taken, you know?

I kind of wished they just hadnt used him in the new 52 until they figured out what to do with him, kind of like theyve done with Steph and Cass. I mean, I love the kid, but man... So if someone could please explain all of this it would be great.

[Kurtzberg]

Wow, i had no idea Tim had a new origin? Where did that come from? On the one hand, His dad being killed in identity crisis is one of the worst things to happen in comics ever, removing something that made him unique.

Why is he called Red Robin in this continuity? (seriously, is there a worse name in all of comics?) Tim will always be "my" Robin, because I started getting into Batman just before he was introduced, but Red Robin didnt even make sense when he actually had been Robin. Plus the name is already kind of taken, you know?

I kind of wished they just hadnt used him in the new 52 until they figured out what to do with him, kind of like theyve done with Steph and Cass. I mean, I love the kid, but man... So if someone could please explain all of this it would be great.

Oh yeah, Tim has a whole new origin, his real name isn't even Tim Drake, that's an alias. He is a child computer genius and gymnast who got in trouble trying to discover Batman's identity, which he failed at but did bring himself to the notice of Bats, but is rejected for the sidekick role. So NotTim decides he isn't done, and in some kind of strange attempt to impress Batman, he hacks the Penguin's bank accounts and donates the money to charity. This brings Penguin down on NotTim and his family's head, which results with them in witness protection, and his parents feeling the newly named Tim Drake would be better off with Batman (because reasons?)
With the new condensed timeline, Tim took the name Red Robin initially, he was never actually Robin. Although they have contradicted this at points. He did this as sort of in deference to the recently deceased Jason, as to honor him but also not to be seen filling his shoes while his corpse wasn't even cold yet.
Also, I think if you don't use Tim at the beginning of the New52, you don't use him at all. I have a bunch of reasons, but I feel I've typed enough, let's just say it would be messy and stupid to try and bring him in after Damian chronologically.

[godisawesome]

And that's why plenty of Tim fans are open to having his New 52 origin redone; he's too much of a generic and arrogant kid who spends every waking moment as Red Robin, so there's none of that humility, awkwardness around girls, or general contacts with his brother's, in spite of his parents' survival, since, as this issue demonstrates, they become plot devices and not actual people.

Heck, even if all they did was make it clear that his family here was created by Mother, it would be more interesting than a brief red herring tease like it seems we may have recieved; imagine Tim discovering his past was a forgery, and then, shaken up and lacking faith in himself, he and Jason (now in the awkward position of having to help little brother get out of his funk) go to Santa Prisca, so not only do they have to fight Bane, but Tim feels he's compromised the entire time.

[darkseidpwns]

Can the villains like actually be intimidating and competent? is that too much to ask for,Orphan is a flop.

[KrustyKid]

Another enjoyable issue

[Godlike13]

Can the villains like actually be intimidating and competent? is that too much to ask for,Orphan is a flop.

LoL, i know. He's like someone from team rocket, "blasting off again". If this is Mothers go to guy im not sure what any of the Bat people are getting worked up about.

[Aahz]

Precisely. In many respects Tim looking like he does in this issue is likely more accurate on average for a 16 year-old who obviously works out then most other "expected" portrayals tend to be. It is, of course, case by case, person by person, but it isn't really that shocking a thing, provided you realize that "all teens aren't short" as they tend to be portrayed (unless it's in their DNA, of course).

But its strange when they do the teens are short thing with Dick but not with Tim in the same series.
And pre flashpoint it was also said that Tim was quite short for his age.

Btw. Tim last official stats were 5’6”, 145 lbs. according to the "DC Comics Ultimate Character Guide" from 2011.

[byrd156]

LoL, i know. He's like someone from team rocket, "blasting off again". If this is Mothers go to guy im not sure what any of the Bat people are getting worked up about.

What is it with people losing their hands in the bat books as of late?

[J. D. Guy]

But its strange when they do the teens are short thing with Dick but not with Tim in the same series.
And pre flashpoint it was also said that Tim was quite short for his age.

Btw. Tim last official stats were 5’6”, 145 lbs. according to the "DC Comics Ultimate Character Guide" from 2011.

This is true, since, going by how he was drawn here, he outta be taller than Dick once he gets to be Dick's age.

But yeah, it all depends on the artist. And like it was mentioned above, he's drawn slimmer and shorter in Teen Titans, which better matches with the other teen heroes, but then again, there's usually no "Robin" competition there, either.

[heyevaxx]

Can the villains like actually be intimidating and competent? is that too much to ask for,Orphan is a flop.

Orphan has the bad luck of being the tough, bad guy during the return of someone who was the top or near top DC fighter.

Cass might not be top anymore but based on the first 5 issues, she's at least near the top of the Batfam. Orphan might have been more threatening in fights with established Batfam members.

Instead, Cass stomps him in BRE02 and chops off his hand while asking her to return to him in BRE05. Even though he did surprise and throw her, she was on the ground looking up when she pretty handily (pun intended) disarmed him (again, intended!) and mimed an answer of NO! to his offer by giving him the Luke Skywalker treatment.

It's hard for DC since they wanted to bring in Cass in the first issue and didn't have much room to establish Orphan as a bad-arse. He just shows up already having beaten Harp badly who's not exactly the best fighter (without her tasers).

I wonder if Orphan will somehow get a new hand, robo, regrow, magic, etc. Or, will another threat be introduced to help or replace him? Can't wait to see.