MCU Daredevil vs. Winter Soldier

[The Drunkard Kid]

Would "no weapons" mean that Bucky's mechanical arm is being removed for this fight?

[Basara]

why are we talking about their strength and toughness...
isn't this just who has the most skill?

Because the original post (OP) states that this was a hth contest with no weapons. That means both men are fighting unarmed. In addition to skill, both men's speed, strength, stamina, and durability are also part of this fight. To just measure the skill alone of each combatant, the OP would need to contain a phrase like "speed, strength, stamina, and durability are equalized". Since the OP does not have such a phrase, we're looking at whether a very skilled human fighter can wear down a man who went toe to toe with the meta human MCU Captain America and gave as good as he got.

The answer is not a chance. Matt would have to wear down Bucky without taking a single hit over a very long period of time. Even a glancing blow by Bucky would severely slow Matt down, leaving him at Bucky's mercy. It simply cannot be done by Matt using his fists and feet alone.

[Captain Morgan]

Not quite. Unless the guy shows the skill to match Matt featwise, he kinda doesn't.

Best we got was a brawl with Cap, which he was winning thanks to being stronger with the Robo-arm. Murdock definitely has him in skill, unless I'm forgetting some feats for Buck.

Even if we used time over feats, master of read is still ignoring that Bucky wasn't ACTIVE for half a century. He was cryogenically frozen between missions. Given how little we know of Matt's training there is zero basis to assume one has more fighting experience than the other. Especially when Bucky wasn't just brawling, but assassinating people with weapons and stuff.

Bucky still wins here, mind, because he's a roughly Cap level hand to hand combatant, which puts him in a rather super human bracket.

[Sharpandpointies]

Would "no weapons" mean that Bucky's mechanical arm is being removed for this fight?

I don't think that prosthetics count as 'weapons'. :)

[Cyke]

I love that it took the combined Cap, Falcon, and Widow to drive away Bucky at one point. In a straight up fight, that's way more than Daredevil can handle.

Now, skillwise, I haven't seen anything that Bucky could do that necessarily puts him over Matt, but maybe close to a draw. Though Matt has that feat of beating up a whole room of guys while the eyes of the person he was rescuing were closed. It could be a question of supernatural training (Stick) vs. Hydra training.

[Iron Fist]

Wouldn't this go down similar to the fight with Fisk? All Matt has to do is land blows and avoid getting struck too much.

Bucky is obviously faster but Matt also avoided the chain weapon that Nobu used, so I think he's got some good speed feats.

I'd say Matt would take this but he'd end up in yet another found half dead in a dumpster situation.

Cap is the most dangerous man alive, as it should be. Bucky put up an okay fight, but Cap was just better. But that's more than enough. Bucky tears DD and Nobu in half at the same time.

I don't see how since Hulk or Iron Man or Thor could easily murder Cap if they wanted to?

[Captain Morgan]

Wouldn't this go down similar to the fight with Fisk? All Matt has to do is land blows and avoid getting struck too much.

Bucky is obviously faster but Matt also avoided the chain weapon that Nobu used, so I think he's got some good speed feats.

I'd say Matt would take this but he'd end up in yet another found half dead in a dumpster situation.



I don't see how since Hulk or Iron Man or Thor could easily murder Cap if they wanted to?

Dodging blows from a faster opponent is not an especially practical thing to do. And frankly I don't know that there is that much of a skill gap between Matt and Bucky.

Also, Fisk was tough, but I don't exactly recall him hurling motorcycles around and what not. Bucky and Cap are just plain tougher as far as bricks go. And Matt relied heavily on weapons to help beatdown Fisk, as I recall.

ALSO ALSO, Nobu was slicing the crap out of Matt, and he basically won on a lucky environmental take down, which wouldn't be relevant here.

So, yeah. Matt is fighting a guy who is stronger, more durable, and faster than he is. Whose grip is probably strong enough to pulverize Matt's bones, and shatter his skull with one good hit. I just can't see him avoiding that long enough to wear Bucky down.

[Iron Fist]

Dodging blows from a faster opponent is not an especially practical thing to do. And frankly I don't know that there is that much of a skill gap between Matt and Bucky.

Also, Fisk was tough, but I don't exactly recall him hurling motorcycles around and what not. Bucky and Cap are just plain tougher as far as bricks go. And Matt relied heavily on weapons to help beatdown Fisk, as I recall.

ALSO ALSO, Nobu was slicing the crap out of Matt, and he basically won on a lucky environmental take down, which wouldn't be relevant here.

So, yeah. Matt is fighting a guy who is stronger, more durable, and faster than he is. Whose grip is probably strong enough to pulverize Matt's bones, and shatter his skull with one good hit. I just can't see him avoiding that long enough to wear Bucky down.

The problem is we haven't really seen much hand to hand with Bucky, he's mostly had weapons and the only good hand to hand fight he had was with Steve where Steve was obviously holding back and it's arguable so was Bucky due to the brainwashing wearing off. Maybe after Civil War we might know more.

Another factor we don't know is how much DD's new armour is going to enhance Matt's fighting ability since from the way Melvin described it, it would remove most of the problems Matt faced in season 1 since it seems to be bullet proof, knife proof and to a certain extent impact resistant.

[Captain Morgan]

The problem is we haven't really seen much hand to hand with Bucky, he's mostly had weapons and the only good hand to hand fight he had was with Steve where Steve was obviously holding back and it's arguable so was Bucky due to the brainwashing wearing off. Maybe after Civil War we might know more.

Another factor we don't know is how much DD's new armour is going to enhance Matt's fighting ability since from the way Melvin described it, it would remove most of the problems Matt faced in season 1 since it seems to be bullet proof, knife proof and to a certain extent impact resistant.

We saw him go toe to toe with Steve twice, the first with their only weapons being a knife and the shield. That's basically hand to hand, and their first big dust up was on the highway when Cap didn't know who the Winter Soldier was and had zero reason to hold back. That fight scene was posted in this very thread.

We saw him dispense with Black Widow's best grapples pretty effortlessly, forcing Natasha to flee. Natasha's probably around Matt's level, going by feats, and she clearly didn't think she stood a chance there. We also saw him pretty effortlessly snag and dismantle Falcon, including some solid aim dodging there.

Matt's suit may be tougher, but we have nothing to indicate he's going to take hits that shatter pavement or tear apart vehicles.

[Cyke]

Matt's suit may be tougher, but we have nothing to indicate he's going to take hits that shatter pavement or tear apart vehicles.

Indeed, a solid punch to the head from Kingpin was enough to daze Matt, making the fight a little more even for a few moments there. And Kingpin doesn't have the strength feats of Winter Soldier.

[The Drunkard Kid]

I don't think that prosthetics count as 'weapons'.

We can always remove one of Matt's arms as well, to make it fair. Ish.

[Sharpandpointies]

We can always remove one of Matt's arms as well, to make it fair. Ish.

Will you stop the bleeding?

[Cyke]

Will you stop the bleeding?

Does Matt ever stop bleeding?

I mean, really, he should be called The Man Without Blood.

[Sharpandpointies]

Movie Matt stopped bleeding.

.....

Actually, Movie Matt healed up just fine. In minutes. ^_^

[The Drunkard Kid]

Movie Matt stopped bleeding.

.....

Actually, Movie Matt healed up just fine. In minutes. ^_^

As a compromise, Movie Matt can go and ask Evanescence to sing Tourniquet for his Netflix counterpart.

I may not actually have a strong grasp of what the word "compromise" means.