Grant Morrison talks modern Superman and his politics

[Agent Z]

Well, you could always expose him to kryptonite so he dies in the slowest, most painful way possible. Since no one complains about Superman doing that in the 80's I guess that must be acceptable. Or maybe it wasnt the kryptonite, it was the fact that Zod was powerless and stranded on a lifeless planet and not a clear or present danger to anyone that makes people okay with it?

You could always just beat him to death. Takes a lot longer, causes a lot more pain.

You could always throw him into a black hole. His atoms could be stretched out across infinity.

You could throw him into a red star so he burns to death. Assuming he doesnt die from exposure first.

Or drown him. I hear that after the first couple minutes once your brain uses up its oxygen the panic stops and the pain of bursting lungs fade, and it ends up being peaceful.

You could shrink down really small and dance around on his brain until it's turned to mush. Or cause him to have a fatal heart attack.

Honestly, a neck snap is probably one of the better ways to go. Quick. Relatively painless.

Honestly not sure if your're being sarcastic but quite a number of people have complained about Clark killing Zod in the 80s.

[Ascended]

Honestly not sure if your're being sarcastic but quite a number of people have complained about Clark killing Zod in the 80s.

I know. I was being sarcastic.

Well, partially. I have mixed feelings on Clark killing people, but I think that if he was going to kill Zod, if that was the direction they were determined to take (and I can see why they would) then a neck snap is no worse than anything else, and better than a lot of options.

[Doctor Know]

Well, you could always expose him to kryptonite so he dies in the slowest, most painful way possible. Since no one complains about Superman doing that in the 80's I guess that must be acceptable. Or maybe it wasnt the kryptonite, it was the fact that Zod was powerless and stranded on a lifeless planet and not a clear or present danger to anyone that makes people okay with it?

Oh people complained when Byrne did it. Although, I think people would have rather Superman asspull a phantom zone projector out of nowhere, like James Robinson did during his climax of War of the Supermen.

You could always just beat him to death. Takes a lot longer, causes a lot more pain.

Like he did Doomsday

You could always throw him into a black hole. His atoms could be stretched out across infinity.

Like he did Jax-Ur and Mala in Superman TAS.

You could throw him into a red star so he burns to death. Assuming he doesnt die from exposure first.

Superman has not done this. However, he did teleport Brainiac 13 and Imperix to the end of time, where they both died in a new big bang.

Or drown him. I hear that after the first couple minutes once your brain uses up its oxygen the panic stops and the pain of bursting lungs fade, and it ends up being peaceful.

Wouldn't work. Kryptonians can hold their breaths for really long times. Zod would struggle and likely fly to another location.

You could shrink down really small and dance around on his brain until it's turned to mush. Or cause him to have a fatal heart attack.

That's only done in terribly bad stories like Identity Crisis and Cry For Justice. Normally done to "intimidate" the victim. Causing someone to have a heart attack was done by Morrison in his New X-Men run, as a way to kill Jean Grey. Yuck

Honestly, a neck snap is probably one of the better ways to go. Quick. Relatively painless.

I know right? It's a "snap". Haha

[Ascended]

Oh people complained when Byrne did it. Although, I think people would have rather Superman asspull a phantom zone projector out of nowhere, like James Robinson did during his climax of War of the Supermen.

Like he did Doomsday

Like he did Jax-Ur and Mala in Superman TAS.

Superman has not done this. However, he did teleport Brainiac 13 and Imperix to the end of time, where they both died in a new big bang.

Wouldn't work. Kryptonians can hold their breaths for really long times. Zod would struggle and likely fly to another location.

That's only done in terribly bad stories like Identity Crisis and Cry For Justice. Normally done to "intimidate" the victim. Causing someone to have a heart attack was done by Morrison in his New X-Men run, as a way to kill Jean Grey. Yuck

I know right? It's a "snap". Haha

See, this is why I dont get the complaints about killing Zod. Or rather, its why I dont get the people who claim that Superman has never killed anyone. Even if you ignore the early Golden Age stuff, his hands aren't completely clean.

Let's not forget that he also threw Darkseid into the Source Wall, which is probably as close to death as Darkseid can get. And he did that solely for revenge. There was no innocent life to save. No family huddling in a corner. No genocide to stop. Darkseid "killed" Kara and was leaving. He did not intend to inflict any more violence of any kind (at least not right that moment). And Superman attacks him and kills him. People let that slide but are still complaining about Zod's death? I just dont get it.

As far as I can tell, killing is okay as long as the victim doesnt look human. If its a monster like Doomsday or Imperiex, then it's cool. But if the victim has a human face, then its a travesty.

[Agent Z]

See, this is why I dont get the complaints about killing Zod. Or rather, its why I dont get the people who claim that Superman has never killed anyone. Even if you ignore the early Golden Age stuff, his hands aren't completely clean.

Let's not forget that he also threw Darkseid into the Source Wall, which is probably as close to death as Darkseid can get. And he did that solely for revenge. There was no innocent life to save. No family huddling in a corner. No genocide to stop. Darkseid "killed" Kara and was leaving. He did not intend to inflict any more violence of any kind (at least not right that moment). And Superman attacks him and kills him. People let that slide but are still complaining about Zod's death? I just dont get it.

As far as I can tell, killing is okay as long as the victim doesnt look human. If its a monster like Doomsday or Imperiex, then it's cool. But if the victim has a human face, then its a travesty.

Rucka even lampshaded this in his Wonder Woman run, siting it as why no one cared when Diana killed Medusa but lost their minds when she killed Max.

[Doctor Know]

See, this is why I dont get the complaints about killing Zod. Or rather, its why I dont get the people who claim that Superman has never killed anyone. Even if you ignore the early Golden Age stuff, his hands aren't completely clean.

Let's not forget that he also threw Darkseid into the Source Wall, which is probably as close to death as Darkseid can get. And he did that solely for revenge. There was no innocent life to save. No family huddling in a corner. No genocide to stop. Darkseid "killed" Kara and was leaving. He did not intend to inflict any more violence of any kind (at least not right that moment). And Superman attacks him and kills him. People let that slide but are still complaining about Zod's death? I just dont get it.

As far as I can tell, killing is okay as long as the victim doesnt look human. If its a monster like Doomsday or Imperiex, then it's cool. But if the victim has a human face, then its a travesty.

Rucka even lampshaded this in his Wonder Woman run, siting it as why no one cared when Diana killed Medusa but lost their minds when she killed Max.

That's what I noticed as well. As long as the victim doesn't look human, nobody cares.

Superman (Kal-L) kills the Anti-Monitor in COIE. Nobody cares.

Superman (Pre-Crisis) kills Mxyzspltk in Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow. Nobody cares.

Superman kills Doomsday (The Death of Superman), Parademons (Any time he is on Apokalips), Darkseid's shadow demons (Death of the New Gods), Brainiac 13 and Imperix (Our World At World) in very violent ways and you never hear cries of "Man of Murder"!!!

Superman kills a violent murderer who has killed thousands on Earth, is actively threatening to kill more, killed Jor-El, and untold numbers on Krypton, and everyone loses their minds! Honestly, if Doomsday or the Anti-Monitor, some demonic looking being had done all the things Zod did in MOS, nobody would care when they eventually ended up dying. Why? Because they don't look human.

[adkal]

That's what I noticed as well. As long as the victim doesn't look human, nobody cares.


Superman (Pre-Crisis) kills Mxyzspltk in Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow. Nobody cares.

Superman cared, that's why he stopped being Superman.

[t hedge coke]

Superman cared, that's why he stopped being Superman.

Right.

It may be true that a broader audience feels it less, but I don't think you can look at Moore or Morrison's stories with Superman in them, or their work as a whole body, and come away sure that they don't care, that they're not aware that killing someone who looks a certain way is the same as killing someone who looks a different way.

[HsssH]

But we don't know if MoS Superman doesn't care.

[t hedge coke]

But we don't know if MoS Superman doesn't care.

I'm more concerned with how the writers and directors handling that Supes feel, but I have to imagine it'll weigh on him in future movies, because they've got to know that much about Superman.

[manofsteel1979]

See, this is why I dont get the complaints about killing Zod. Or rather, its why I dont get the people who claim that Superman has never killed anyone. Even if you ignore the early Golden Age stuff, his hands aren't completely clean.

Let's not forget that he also threw Darkseid into the Source Wall, which is probably as close to death as Darkseid can get. And he did that solely for revenge. There was no innocent life to save. No family huddling in a corner. No genocide to stop. Darkseid "killed" Kara and was leaving. He did not intend to inflict any more violence of any kind (at least not right that moment). And Superman attacks him and kills him. People let that slide but are still complaining about Zod's death? I just dont get it.

As far as I can tell, killing is okay as long as the victim doesnt look human. If its a monster like Doomsday or Imperiex, then it's cool. But if the victim has a human face, then its a travesty.

Speaking specifically of MOS, I've always suspected the majority ( not all...but the vast majority) of people who go the Man of Murder route or make the ending with Zod such a big deal is that they wanted something like the Donner film but more modern...but didn't get it.

So instead of just being honest why they don't like it, decided to harp on something controversial and make that the focal point of their criticisms in order to give their dislike more credibility and hopefully make those who did like it feel guilty about liking it so they don't feel so alone or as petty as they know just saying " It should have been like the Chris Reeve movies" sounds.

[Agent Z]

I'm more concerned with how the writers and directors handling that Supes feel, but I have to imagine it'll weigh on him in future movies, because they've got to know that much about Superman.

Seriously, the whole point of him turning himself over to Zod and his cry of anguish after he killed Zod are more than enough proof that this Superman does care.

[Agent Z]

I'm more concerned with how the writers and directors handling that Supes feel, but I have to imagine it'll weigh on him in future movies, because they've got to know that much about Superman.

Seriously, the whole point of him turning himself over to Zod and his cry of anguish after he killed Zod are more than enough proof that this Superman does care.

[Tayswift]

Speaking specifically of MOS, I've always suspected the majority ( not all...but the vast majority) of people who go the Man of Murder route or make the ending with Zod such a big deal is that they wanted something like the Donner film but more modern...but didn't get it.

So instead of just being honest why they don't like it, decided to harp on something controversial and make that the focal point of their criticisms in order to give their dislike more credibility and hopefully make those who did like it feel guilty about liking it so they don't feel so alone or as petty as they know just saying " It should have been like the Chris Reeve movies" sounds.

it can be the case of few, but not he case of majority. Morrison criticized very openly the end and it had nothing to do with Donner version.
what people expected was a smart move, something hopeful, s means hope, but we don't see that hope. just more violence

[manofsteel1979]

it can be the case of few, but not he case of majority. Morrison criticized very openly the end and it had nothing to do with Donner version.
what people expected was a smart move, something hopeful, s means hope, but we don't see that hope. just more violence

I'm not referring to people who merely say the movie or aspects of the movie disappointed them. I'm talking of the people who flood forums with stuff like "Man of Murder" or "Murderer of Steel" "Hobo of Steel" etc and treat Superman's killing of Zod as some abberation or anomaly as Superman "never" kills...when he has, in the comics and other media and past movies, HAS KILLED , and usually it's General Zod or Doomsday. Many of those same people will defend these other instances and make excuses for them but for some reason in MOS it was unforgivable and forever ruined the current film version of Superman no matter how future films address it. I think that's telling.

I do agree MOS could have been a lot better, particularly in the case of how they handled Jonathan Kent's death and the last act was slanted a little too much in the vein of destruction porn (as an over correction to the valid claims of no action in SUPERMAN RETURNS),but the ending with Zod was not as problematic as some make it out to be, and the majority of first two thirds of the movie did a good job with character development and building a credible version of Superman from elements of the Post-Crisis comics, Smallville and, yes, the Donner film. I enjoyed Cavill and the rest of the cast and the costume used in the film is 1000 times superior to any of his current comic looks (particularly the New 52 armor), so it gets a thumbs up overall, but it could have and should have been better.

Actually my opinion matches Morrison's pretty closely. He enjoyed quite a lot of it, felt the ending was flawed, albeit for different reasons, and is optimistic for the sequel.