Korra (LoK) vs Azula (AtLA)

[Basara]

It's kind of funny. We're actually debating just how screwed Azula is.

I guess we have a stompity stomp stomp thread here.

[JaggedFel]

Instantly getting stuff from past lives doesnt make sense otherwise why cant Korra instantly airbend

[Hiromi]

She didn't have access to her past lives or the Avatar State until after she'd learned to air bend

[JaggedFel]

Aang had avatar mode and didnt instantly master elements outside of that mode just because he had it.

[Hiromi]

Except that you'll notice that Aang was using elements during the avatar state that he hadn't otherwise learned, ala water in episode 1, Earth in episode 1 of book 2, and Fire whenever he was channeling Roku. And this was all when he didn't have control over the Avatar State, which Korra had on the first time. And please feel free to explain how she learned Energy Bending if that isn't how it works.

[Totoro Man]

She didn't have access to her past lives or the Avatar State until after she'd learned to air bend

she was having dreams/visions of Yakone before she learned how to airbend. that's definitely communicating with past lives. after magically gained the ability to airbend she was able to speak to Aang directly in spirit form-- but this wasn't brought back for season 2.

we would have never gotten the lengthy flashback concerning Avatar Wan if she didn't have access to past lives.

Korra didn't lose the ability to communicate with past lives until the two-part finale of Season 2 when Unalaq severed her connection to Raava.

I think it would be better to suggest that, as a general rule, Korra demonstrated no interest in communicating with her past lives: unless the plot forced her to use it, or the ability was taken from her.

[Hiromi]

She had the Wan flashbacks in season 2 so I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, Aang specifically made a speech in the final episode stating verbatim that she was "finally connected with her spiritual self," and then she got the scene of standing before all her past lives
Also as seen in the previous series connection to past lives and the avatar state are closely if not directly tied together, and she didn't do that until the final episode of season 1, when she incidentally gained energy bending


Finally I'm still patiently waiting for an alternate explanation on how she got energy bending that makes a lick of sense

[Totoro Man]

the spirit giant required prep-time and a unique spirit-world scenario. Korra can't just use it for every rumble. it's also hard to justify her having access to it when she couldn't use it the second time she was meditating in the tree of time later in the season.

[Totoro Man]

She had the Wan flashbacks in season 2 so I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, Aang specifically made a speech in the final episode stating verbatim that she was "finally connected with her spiritual self," and then she got the scene of standing before all her past lives
Also as seen in the previous series connection to past lives and the avatar state are closely if not directly tied together, and she didn't do that until the final episode of season 1, when she incidentally gained energy bending


Finally I'm still patiently waiting for an alternate explanation on how she got energy bending that makes a lick of sense

LOL, don't bother. they just handwaved it to her... like water-bending, earth-bending, and fire-bending. Korra gets almost as many freebies as Naruto and Sasuke! ;-)

I was disputing the idea that Korra didn't get access to her past lives until AFTER she was given the ability to airbend. I mentioned Wan's story simpy to illustrate that Korra had access to past lives for the better part of the first two seasons. guess I needed to spell that out some more.

[Totoro Man]

It's kind of funny. We're actually debating just how screwed Azula is.

I guess we have a stompity stomp stomp thread here.

nah, it's a scenario that provides opportunities for both fighters. Azula does have an attack with a proven record of killing avatars instantly. she's got better feats for dodging (Korra gets hit a lot more, and more often than Azula). this is a good rumble. if Korra goes into the Avatar-state Azula automatically gets powered up by Sozin's comet-- so she's still got a chance.

edit:
pretty sure that Azula was 0/2 against Katara when they fought each other. Zuko saved her the first time. and she got ambushed/trapped the second time. Azula is a fearsome combatant in the avatar-verse but she can be defeated. Amon would LOLNope her (and, well everybody else because he's so haxor)

[Totoro Man]

Except that you'll notice that Aang was using elements during the avatar state that he hadn't otherwise learned, ala water in episode 1, Earth in episode 1 of book 2, and Fire whenever he was channeling Roku. And this was all when he didn't have control over the Avatar State, which Korra had on the first time. And please feel free to explain how she learned Energy Bending if that isn't how it works.

the waterbending in episode 1 is definitely true. but that's also not consistent with what we're shown later.

did Aang actually use firebending at the fire sage temple? I thought the monks explicitly stated that the spirit of Avatar Roku appeared because of the solistice and was using firebending to thwart Zhao, Zuko, and the fire sages from capturing the avatar. heck, Roku shows up in spirit form and starts laying waste to the place.

Aang used energy bending to restore Korra's powers. so, at the very least, she saw him use it once. since Korra seems to be an awfully quick study-- you could validly argue that she "learned" it from Aang by experiencing it first-hand and interacting with her past life. Aang learned how to do it by simply getting touched by a lion-turtle with the ability. in this respect they both gained the ability the exact same way-- by direct physical contact and by speaking with a known user of the ability. in both cases it's still a deus ex machina, of course. but at least they were consistent about it.

[Hiromi]

You do realize that you just spent a paragraph arguing that she learned the ability directly from one of her past lives which is essentially the exact same thing you were trying to argue against right?

[Totoro Man]

You do realize that you just spent a paragraph arguing that she learned the ability directly from one of her past lives which is essentially the exact same thing you were trying to argue against right?

I thought you were suggesting that Korra could simply be given all of the previous avatar feats because she's a reincarnation. if that's not what you meant-- then I misunderstood.

I stated that she learned energy-bending by physical contact with Aang, experiencing it first-hand, and speaking with a past life (Aang). she can't simply do it just because one of her past lives did it. I'm not arguing against her learning from past lives. I'm arguing against her having their feats simply because she's the Avatar. or do you make no distinction between the two scenarios?

are you still trying to argue that Aang used firebending during the solstice? the monks even state that Roku was the one firebending at the temple on the solstice. the only feat I can remember where Aang used an ability he had never learned before is the water-bending in the first episode. otherwise he was limited to skill sets he had learned.

just because Korra has control of the Avatar state doesn't mean that she gets feats from other avatars. Aang didn't get that sort of thing either. (excepting that first feat of water-bending. the fact that it didn't happen later with other abilities makes it SMFL one-off feat IMO)

[Guy1]

nah, it's a scenario that provides opportunities for both fighters. Azula does have an attack with a proven record of killing avatars instantly. she's got better feats for dodging (Korra gets hit a lot more, and more often than Azula). this is a good rumble. if Korra goes into the Avatar-state Azula automatically gets powered up by Sozin's comet-- so she's still got a chance.

Wait, if Sozin's Comet is powering up Firebending, and Korra is in Avatar Mode, wouldn't she still have the firepower advantage?

[Sharkerbob]

Wait, if Sozin's Comet is powering up Firebending, and Korra is in Avatar Mode, wouldn't she still have the firepower advantage?

Assume Korra doesn't benefit from the Comet. This is to give Azula a boost so Korra going Avatar Mode isn't tip things too far in her favor.


And noted on the fight setting giving Korra an advantage, just wasn't sure where else to put it, since a Khazan Match would cut Korra off from a water source. But the open-field battle has been debated, too, anyway, so all good.