The Great "what ifs" of History Thread.

[heretic]

What if the South won the Civil War?

Given the social stratification and weak central government? I think an anglophone variant on the Banana Republic archtype, if not a full-on failed state, is likely.

What if plague and disease hadn't killed off such a huge portion of Native Americans before colonization?

Given the nature of Virgin Field Epidemics, this needs a POD very far back to introduce Eurasian diseases. But in general it is far less of a walkover for Colonization even given the tech difference.

[DrNewGod]

What if the South won the Civil War?

The push to extend the railroads west might not have happened, as a consequence, the Republic of California might well have split away from its warring neighbors. Alaska would probably have wound up a Canadian Province. If California did create its own republic, its uncertain whether it would have become a naval power, so there's no way to tell who (if anyone) would have owned Hawaii.

All of that might mean that there would have been no one to check Imperial Japan as a rising power in the Pacific. On the other hand, the US' naval gun-barrel diplomacy played a large role in setting Imperial Japan on the road to conquest, so Japan might have remained in isolation for another century had the Confederacy defeated the US.

[Brigonos Chomhgaill]

How would things have been different it Al Gore had won the 2000 election?

He did win, so things would have been exactly the same.

[KOSLOX]

What if Mexico had reignited the Mexican/American war and entered The Great War. With the US preoccupied at home does England withdraw due to their merchant fleet and shipping routes being totally smashed by the Germans?

Also, does this especially damn France once the Russian provincial government leaks the secret pacts made regarding how the Allies will divvy up their conquests?

[TheNewFiftyForum]

Think the last two were inevitable. Eventually some humans would have come to the Americas (whether Asian, European, or Native Americans going elsewhere) and those microbes would come with them. Same with scientific development leading to knowledge of the possibility of an Atom bomb and then that being used as a weapon. It's human nature. As to the God/Satan one, that just brings up more questions (never mind whether any of those in the scenario existed/do exist in the first place). Why would an all-powerful god need the rejection of temptation by Adam to destroy Satan? Why create him in the first place? Why create humans as curious and disobedient? And then why be surprised when they're curious and disobedient?

South and the Civil War, gosh so many possibilities. First, we wouldn't be the world's most powerful country. Neither one likely would have become one. Still a lot of natural resources, but the advantage of being isolated from enemies by oceans would have been negated (I'd imagine our relations wouldn't be as friendly as the US and Canada, more like North and South Korea). Slavery would have ended later (though if they wanted to continue doing business in Europe they'd have had to give in some time). They'd likely still be waiting on a Civil Rights movement. We might have had further wars, and might have stayed out of WWI. Maybe the South (or ruling white Christians there, anyway) would have identified with the racial superiority/eugenics movement (that I believe was popular here before Hitler) and sided with the Axis powers. Probably wouldn't have dropped those A-bombs on Japan, or been much help against Hitler in Europe. Wouldn't have been a check on Soviet expansion (maybe socialist movements in urban areas/the north could have swung us Yanks that way). How would Native American relocation in the post-Civil War era have happened differently? Too many off-shoot possibilities to consider.

I'm far from a historian, but if the USA hadn't joined World War I the Entente might have lost the war to the alliance of Germany, Italy and Austria-Hungary, which in turn would have made Germany a much less fertile environment for nazism in the 1920's, right? That could have had some pretty staggering implications.

[CSTowle]

I'm far from a historian, but if the USA hadn't joined World War I the Entente might have lost the war to the alliance of Germany, Italy and Austria-Hungary, which in turn would have made Germany a much less fertile environment for nazism in the 1920's, right? That could have had some pretty staggering implications.

That's true, the problem with what-ifs that large is the impact would be big enough to have so many ripple effects it's hard to map it out. Maybe it'd be a better world, except for black folk in the South and North Americans in general. Or maybe it'd be much worse. Too hard to say, but fun to speculate (and that's the point of the thread I guess).

[Mister Mets]

What if Abraham Lincoln hadn't been assassinated? What if one of our finest Presidents hadn't been replaced in that way by one of our worst?

That's one of the big ones.

[Oskar Von Strange]

What if the atomic bomb was never created?

In that case, the US would have invaded mainland Japan and the war would go on another year or two with an estimated one million American casualties. Also, I think Russia had agreed to help the US in the invasion so Japan would have been fucked.

Its interesting, I've always wondered about this scenario.

[The Whovian]

Just wanted to say what a great idea for a thread. I'm a big history buff so this is going to be fun.

The thread for postulating how history could have played out differently

For example:

How would things have been different it Al Gore had won the 2000 election?

I would imagine that our economy would be better. Let me explain. Elections seem to go in alternate directions every time. A repub will win and hold office for 4-8 years, then the masses get tired of that group and elect the other. So had Gore been elected that would mean that the Dems would have held office for 12 years. A reupb would have almost CERTAINLY won the 2014 election, which means no Obama. Our economy would be better since Obama wouldn't be around to ruin it and pass Obama Care.

[The Whovian]

What if Adam and Eve had flat-out rejected Satan's offer of eating the fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Bad? Had that been the case, the Almighty ( יהוה YHWH) Jehovah would have destroyed Satan right then and there and the question of universal sovereignty (who has the right to rule/govern humanity) would have been answered. Humanity would now be living in a paradise earth and enjoying perfect health and everlasting life. This whole current timeline would never have happened.

That's exactly what would have happened.

[The Whovian]

What if the jets drafted brady? No doubt jets could have 3 or 4 super bowls.

Actually, I don't think Brady wins anything had he been drafted by any other team than the Patriots. He was drafted in the 6th rd by them, and they had no intention of playing him. The only reason he even got a shot was because Bledsoe got hurt. Otherwise, Brady would have been buried on the depth chart and quite possibly cut. IF some other team had picked him up and gave him a shot, he would have been in a totally different system and I'm not sure he has as good a career as he's had. Keep in mind that he's played for arguably the best head coach and assistants in the NFL. Think he would have been just as good in Cleveland or Buffalo? I don't.

[The Whovian]

A very large ground war with the Soviets in the 1950s would have been a lot more likely; we might, just now, be putting Europe back together again. The moon landings might not have happened; there wasn't any other weapon that could have made developing an orbit-capable booster vehicle worthwhile. Assuming the Soviet economy still fell apart, it might have taken a lot longer. I'd imagine the US and Soviets would each have tried to colonize the Middle East to control the oil as the British withdrew; the Middle East would probably be only a decade or so past that occupation (assuming one colonial power or the other collapsed).

Agreed. This is probably what would have happened. Basically, the bomb saved us from a WWIII

[The Whovian]

The way that human history unfolded during the twentieth century would certainly have been massively different if the South had won the US Civil War.

What if Constantine hadn't experienced some kind of surreallistic dream before the Battle Of Milvian Bridge in 312 AD? The one that caused him to adopt Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire after his victory.

This one is huge because it helped spread the gospel quicker and over a larger portion of the world. However, I beleive Christianity would still have flourished. It just would have taken longer

[The Whovian]

What if the terrorists that attacked the Twin Towers and hijacked the other planes were caught before they got on the planes?

What if there wasn't an American Revolution? The British colonists remained loyal to the crown?

What if Abraham Lincoln wasn't assassinated?

What if Hitler was killed in WWI?

What if Muhammad was killed as a young boy?

What if Edward VIII never abdicated the throne?

[WillieMorgan]

What if Arthur Zimmerman had denied all knowledge of this telegram (intercepted by British Intelligence):

"We intend to begin on the first of February unrestricted submarine warfare. We shall endeavor in spite of this to keep the United States of America neutral. In the event of this not succeeding, we make Mexico a proposal of alliance on the following basis: make war together, make peace together, generous financial support and an understanding on our part that Mexico is to reconquer the lost territory in Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona. The settlement in detail is left to you. You will inform the President of the above most secretly as soon as the outbreak of war with the United States of America is certain and add the suggestion that he should, on his own initiative, invite Japan to immediate adherence and at the same time mediate between Japan and ourselves. Please call the President's attention to the fact that the ruthless employment of our submarines now offers the prospect of compelling England in a few months to make peace." Signed, ZIMMERMANN