The Great "what ifs" of History Thread.

[Ghost Rider TheHellfireDemon]

Ugh. Please don't remind me of that garbage story

If it didnt have such horrid consequences i wouldnt.



If it didnt have horrid consequences I wouldnt have to.

What if Hitler successfuly invaded Russia?

Would bruce waynes parents not got killed if he didnt get scared in the theater? Does he not become Batman if his parents dont get murdered?

[Kirby101]

That unemployment rate is one big lie. The reason it is low is because they don't factor in the people who have lost their jobs and stopped looking out of frustration. Also, how many of those jobs are part time now instead of full time? All of those statistics above are just plain false.

Employment statistics work in comparing Presidents. Apples to apples.

And also, nope.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...ade-a-comeback

BTW; we agree on how awful OMD was. Truly horrible.

[DrNewGod]

What if Hitler successfuly invaded Russia?

That's a tough one. Occupying such a large landmass might still have diffused the Wehrmacht's strength, but they wouldn't have had as many men and resources ground up in Russia. A French landing might not have been feasible. The allies might have had to push up through Italy, down from Scandinavia, or attack southern France from northern Africa. Ultimately, the weight of Allied resources probably would have won the day, there was simply too much industrial carnage in Europe, and the US was virtually untouchable at the time. It would certainly have taken a lot longer.

[Kirby101]

That's a tough one. Occupying such a large landmass might still have diffused the Wehrmacht's strength, but they wouldn't have had as many men and resources ground up in Russia. A French landing might not have been feasible. The allies might have had to push up through Italy, down from Scandinavia, or attack southern France from northern Africa. Ultimately, the weight of Allied resources probably would have won the day, there was simply too much industrial carnage in Europe, and the US was virtually untouchable at the time. It would certainly have taken a lot longer.

Unless it took long enough for Germany to develop the Bomb. Then.....

[spookymulder]

What if Scotland had voted YES last year in the independence referendum?

What if Marty's amp hadn't blown, forcing him to break into a mad scientists home?

What if Luke went to get those GODDAMMED power converters?

[Ghost Rider TheHellfireDemon]

What if sam saved jessica would he have remained out of the monster hunting business?

If the cia succeded in assasinating Fidel Castro who would have taken over as president in Cuba?


Would robocop 2 and 3 have been succesful quality movies if paul verhoeven directed them?

When would Homeland security be created if the 9-11 terrorist attacks were prevented?

[Titan76]

What if Private Henry Tandey killed Hitler, France lost the Battle of Tours, Julius Cesar had not dismissed his bodyguard, the First Crusader had been a failure?



And because I just felt like it.

Well, let's start with the big one. Since Obama took over the national debt has DOUBLED. His debt is more in the 6 years that he's been president than ALL of the presidents before him COMBINED. Think about that for one second.

The majority of the debt spent in Obama's first term had to do with his stimulus plan, which was his way of preventing the economy from getting worse.

As for the rest, all you need to do is a little research and you'll find that the economy has been decimated.

The economy is still recovering from the Great Recession which started before Obama took office, did you expect it to take a few months or years?

There's more people on food stamps and government assistance than ever before.

That would have to do with the Great Recession and most(and not all) of these programs weren't around during the Great Depression or the Depressions before it, which would change your answer.

Scores of people unemployed who have stopped looking for jobs all together because they're sick of looking. Food prices have gone sky high.

Food prices are beyond Presidential power and as for the rest, see answer above.

#1 Back in 1980, the U.S. national debt was less than one trillion dollars. Today, it is rapidly approaching 17 trillion dollars…
National Debt

Obama didn't take office until 2009.

#2 During Obama’s first term, the federal government accumulated more debt than it did under the first 42 U.S presidents combined.

Well, I don't know if that last part is true but as for the part before it, that was to be expected because of lost tax revenue from the GR and Obama's stimulus plan.

#3 The U.S. national debt is now more than 23 times larger than it was when Jimmy Carter became president.

Obama didn't take office until 2009.

#4 If you started paying off just the new debt that the U.S. has accumulated during the Obama administration at the rate of one dollar per second, it would take more than 184,000 years to pay it off.

Debt isn't the problem. With the exception of Andrew Jackson's administration, the US has always had debt. The real concern is the percentage of debt to GDP, but even this could not be a big problem as Japan's debt to GDP is over 200%, more the double the US. The debt topic is not as black and white as you may think, there's a lot more two it that can't be sum up in a sentence or two.

#5 The federal government is stealing more than 100 million dollars from our children and our grandchildren every single hour of every single day.

Yeah no. The federal government isn't stealing our money, we have this thing call taxation with representation. The people you elect to Congress are the ones who decided how taxpayer money is spent. If you want to see a country whose government steals its people's money, move to North Korea.

#6 Back in 1970, the total amount of debt in the United States (government debt + business debt + consumer debt, etc.) was less than 2 trillion dollars. Today it is over 56 trillion dollars…Total Debt

Are you adding entitlement debt in the first part, because you are in the second. Entitlement debt and real debt are two different things. And again, Obama didn't take office until 2009.

#7 According to the World Bank, U.S. GDP accounted for 31.8 percentof all global economic activity in 2001. That number dropped to 21.6 percent in 2011.

2001 was the year the dot com boom came to an end and we were still very much recovering from the GR in 2011, so the numbers don't tell the whole story.

#8 The United States has fallen in the global economic competitiveness rankings compiled by the World Economic Forum for four years in a row.

A link to that info please.

#9 According to The Economist, the United States was the best place in the world to be born into back in 1988. Today, the United States is only tied for 16th place.

First, rankings like that are somewhat stupid. There are many factors that go into rankings like that and people have many reasons for wanting to live somewhere. Second, the US has drop because other countries have probably improved in a lot of ways then the US. One can say gun violence is one of them. Third, Obama didn't take office until 2009.

#10 Incredibly, more than 56,000 manufacturing facilities in the United States have been permanently shut down since 2001.

Yes, its called outsourcing. Companies are moving jobs overseas were they pay workers(and provide no benefits and who are not able to unionize) a lot less then American workers, and Obama didn't take office until 2009.

#11 There are less Americans working in manufacturing today than there was in 1950 even though the population of the country has more than doubled since then.

See above answer.

#12 According to the New York Times, there are now approximately 70,000 abandoned buildings in Detroit.

Which has to do with the auto industry leaving the state of Michigan, not because of Obama. Hell, if it wasn't for Bush II and Obama, Detroit and Michigan would be in a bigger sh#% hole then they are in now, which is saying something.

#13 When NAFTA was pushed through Congress in 1993, the United States had a trade surplus with Mexico of 1.6 billion dollars. By 2010, we had a trade deficit with Mexico of 61.6 billion dollars.

Obama didn't take office until 2009.

#14 Back in 1985, our trade deficit with China was approximately 6million dollars (million with a little “m”) for the entire year. In 2012, our trade deficit with China was 315 billion dollars. That was the largest trade deficit that one nation has had with another nation in the history of the world.

The trade deficit with China had been growing before Obama got into office, mainly because China started becoming the manufacturing capital of the world because of its huge population and need for jobs and lower wages there. Also, manufacturing is slowly coming back here because wages are going up in China. Though they will never go back to what they once were no matter who is President.

#15 Overall, the United States has run a trade deficit of more than 8 trillion dollars with the rest of the world since 1975.

Link for that please.

#16 According to the Economic Policy Institute, the United States is losing half a million jobs to China every single year.

Which is beyond Obama's control.

#17 Back in 1950, more than 80 percent of all men in the United States had jobs. Today, less than 65 percent of all men in the United States have jobs.

There are many reasons for that. Other countries recovering from WWII(unlike the US which aside from Pearl Harbor, wasn't touched), unions were stronger back then, women entering the workforce, most jobs now require some form of college education which wasn't necessary back then, valve of currencies, etc. There is no silver bullet answer for this.

#18 At this point, an astounding 53 percent of all American workers make less than $30,000 a year.

Which has to do with companies wanting to pay their workers less, not because of Obama.

#19 Small business is rapidly dying in America. At this point, only about 7 percent of all non-farm workers in the United States are self-employed. That is an all-time record low.

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/fi..._Sept_2012.pdf

Small businesses make up:

99.7 percent of U.S. employer firms,
64 percent of net new private-sector
jobs,
49.2 percent of private-sector
employment,
42.9 percent of private-sector payroll,
46 percent of private-sector output,
43 percent of high-tech employment,
98 percent of firms exporting goods,
and
33 percent of exporting value.

#20 Back in 1983, the bottom 95 percent of all income earners in the United States had 62 cents of debt for every dollar that they earned. By 2007, that figure had soared to $1.48.

Which has to do with wages being flat for at least 30 years now(corporate greed), not because of Obama.

#21 In the United States today, the wealthiest one percent of all Americans have a greater net worth than the bottom 90 percent combined.
#22 According to Forbes, the 400 wealthiest Americans have more wealth than the bottom 150 million Americans combined.
#23 The six heirs of Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton have as much wealth as the bottom one-third of all Americans combined.

Which has to do with corporate greed, not Obama.

#24 According to the U.S. Census Bureau, more than 146 million Americans are either “poor” or “low income”.
#25 According to the U.S. Census Bureau, 49 percent of all Americans live in a home that receives direct monetary benefits from the federal government. Back in 1983, less than a third of all Americans lived in a home that received direct monetary benefits from the federal government.

Which has to do with the effects of the GR and the Republicans not wanting to work with Obama to improve the economy.

[Titan76]

#26 Overall, the federal government runs nearly 80 different “means-tested welfare programs”, and at this point more than 100 million Americans are enrolled in at least one of them.

Which is because prices such as cost of living, education, food, medical, etc. has gone up, up, up, and wages go up at a snails pace.

#27 Back in 1965, only one out of every 50 Americans was on Medicaid. Today, one out of every 6 Americans is on Medicaid, and things are about to get a whole lot worse. It is being projected that Obamacare will add 16 million more Americans to the Medicaid rolls.

Are you saying people having access to health care is worse?

#28 As I wrote recently, it is being projected that the number of Americans on Medicare will grow from 50.7 million in 2012 to 73.2 million in 2025.

That's because of the baby boom generation living a lot longer and the baby boom out numbering worker replacement.

#29 At this point, Medicare is facing unfunded liabilities of more than 38 trillion dollars over the next 75 years. That comes to approximately$328,404 for every single household in the United States.

Your adding medicare to that sum too. Medicare is the real problem because of the number of people going to retire and not enough workers filling their spots.

#30 Right now, there are approximately 56 million Americans collecting Social Security benefits. By 2035, that number is projected to soar to an astounding 91 million.

Once again, baby boom generation.

#31 Overall, the Social Security system is facing a 134 trillion dollar shortfall over the next 75 years.

Possibly, one can't see that far into the future and that figure is only if SS stays the same during that 75 years.

#32 Today, the number of Americans on Social Security Disability now exceeds the entire population of Greece, and the number of Americans on food stamps now exceeds the entire population of Spain.

That's a misleading number. That's mostly because of difference of populations. Greece has only 10 million people, Spain has I think 56 million, the US has about 320 million. The percentage to population is a more actuate number to use. Also the economy has not yet fully recover either.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-long...my-to-recover/

I don't think we'll attain the growth rates the CBO is forecasting -- an average of 3.6% from 2013 to 2016 is a lot to ask for (especially if there is substantial deficit reduction over that time period). But even the CBO's optimistic estimates imply we won't fully recover until 2017. And if growth is a bit slower, well, yikes!:

#33 According to a report recently issued by the Pew Research Center, on average Americans over the age of 65 have 47 times as much wealth as Americans under the age of 35.

Considering they have been working longer, that's to be expected.

#34 U.S. families that have a head of household that is under the age of 30 have a poverty rate of 37 percent.

It sucks entering the worker force just before and after the GR started.

#35 As I mentioned recently, the homeownership rate in America is now at its lowest level in nearly 18 years.

You do know what caused the GR do you?

#36 There are now 20.2 million Americans that spend more than half of their incomes on housing. That represents a 46 percent increase from 2001.

See above.

#37 45 percent of all children are living in poverty in Miami, more than 50 percent of all children are living in poverty in Cleveland, and about 60 percent of all children are living in poverty in Detroit.

Obama's fault?

#38 Today, more than a million public school students in the United States are homeless. This is the first time that has ever happened in our history

Which is the fault of the GR.

#39 When Barack Obama first entered the White House, about 32 million Americans were on food stamps. Now, more than 47 million Americans are on food stamps.

See answer above.

#40 According to one calculation, the number of Americans on food stamps now exceeds the combined populations of “Alaska, Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Hawaii, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Maine, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, West Virginia, and Wyoming.”

First link, second population wise these are the smallest states. I could be wrong but I don't think any of them have more then five million people.

Still think Obama is doing a great job on the economy?

Yes and no. There are somethings he has done good at and somethings he hasn't. Most of the stuff on your list had really nothing to do with Obama at all, started happening way before he took office, and the rest happened just when he got into office which was when the GR was starting to really pick up steam. The office of the president isn't a dictatorship, their power towards the economy is really limited. While things are going good the President wants all the glory and when things are going bad they want to share blame or direct blame to someone else. The truth is presidential power towards the economy is not that big since they need Congress to passed anything they want done, and since all but two years, Republicans have had control of at least one half of Congress, things are not going to get good as fast you may like. Hell, it took 10 years and WWII(total of 15 years) to get us out of the Great Depression and that was with a same party President and Congress. The Federal Reserve actually has more power and influence in the economy then the president does.

[Ghost Rider TheHellfireDemon]

If Great Britan won the revolutionary war would they have tried to make other countries their territory? And would they become the nightmare that they were portrayed in the movie V for Vendetta?

Would Al Capone and other mobsters not have gained power in the
USA if prohibition of alcohol never happened?

If the Nazis never got created would as a consequence Captain America, the Red Skull and all characters of the captain america universe never been created?

What if what is inside of Area 51 is revealed to US citizens?
Then all endless debates cease that its a area to hide ufos aliens, and anything related to aliens.

[Kirby101]

If Great Britan won the revolutionary war would they have tried to make other countries their territory? And would they become the nightmare that they were portrayed in the movie V for Vendetta?

Would Al Capone and other mobsters not have gained power in the
USA if prohibition of alcohol never happened?

If the Nazis never got created would as a consequence Captain America, the Red Skull and all characters of the captain america universe never been created?

What if what is inside of Area 51 is revealed to US citizens?
Then all endless debates cease that its a area to hide ufos aliens, and anything related to aliens.

No Nazis no Captain America, Though the science behind it might have eventually resulted in a similar person. (It's like the Manhattan Project, without the war, no A-Bomb, then, but eventually...)

Seeing how UFO believers usually react, an open tour of Area 51 would not dissuade them from believing that the Government is hiding UFOs and Aliens.

People still believe in the Rosewell UFO crash and the Bermuda Triangle, no matter how thoroughly they have been debunked.

(BTW I just read the first sentence of that part and was about to give you a "facepalm" until I saw the second part )

[DrNewGod]

If Great Britan won the revolutionary war would they have tried to make other countries their territory? And would they become the nightmare that they were portrayed in the movie V for Vendetta?

I've speculated elsewhere that Anglo-American expansion would have been slower across North America, in part because Britain would not have been as welcoming of non-British immigrants to the US, and because they would not have indulged in slave trade to the degree the US did. One thing that I didn't think of was that Napoleon would not have been as willing to sell Louisiana to the British Crown as he was to the US. Further, the Napoleonic Wars might well have been fought in North America, much as the 7-Years War (known in the States as the French and Indian War) was.

Mexico, lacking the infusion of burgeoning and ungoverned Anglo-American immigrants, would likely have established a stable Mexican Empire under Santa Anna and his heirs, and I could see that Empire stretching from modern-day Panama north as far as the Great Lakes (depending on whether Mexico or Britain figured out that the west had precious metals first). The immigrants from central Europe, if they came to the western hemisphere at all, would likely have settled South America in greater numbers, rather than in the north.

[Kirby101]

I've speculated elsewhere that Anglo-American expansion would have been slower across North America, in part because Britain would not have been as welcoming of non-British immigrants to the US, and because they would not have indulged in slave trade to the degree the US did. One thing that I didn't think of was that Napoleon would not have been as willing to sell Louisiana to the British Crown as he was to the US. Further, the Napoleonic Wars might well have been fought in North America, much as the 7-Years War (known in the States as the French and Indian War) was.

Mexico, lacking the infusion of burgeoning and ungoverned Anglo-American immigrants, would likely have established a stable Mexican Empire under Santa Anna and his heirs, and I could see that Empire stretching from modern-day Panama north as far as the Great Lakes (depending on whether Mexico or Britain figured out that the west had precious metals first). The immigrants from central Europe, if they came to the western hemisphere at all, would likely have settled South America in greater numbers, rather than in the north.

Also, slavery would have ended far earlier (1833) so no civil war. And like all British colonies, America would have eventually become an independent nation within the Commonwealth. Like Canada in the 1870s, maybe British America and Canada would have been one country.

[DrNewGod]

...maybe British America and Canada would have been one country.

I'm not sure that I'd wish all our wackiness on the poor, innocent Canadians.

Now that I think of it though, with the resources of (potentially) the entire North American continent and its industries behind her, Great Britain might likely have crushed the Kaiser's Germany in WWI, and perhaps even succeeded in the attempt to ensure the Mensheviks won the civil war that followed the Russian Revolution. That's not to say there wouldn't have been a WWII, but without a willing co-conspirator in Stalin in the late '30s, Hitler might not have been quite so bold in his moves.

[Ghost Rider TheHellfireDemon]

What if the huge PIS didnt happen and Ghost Rider with Zarathos in control got to continue fighting WWHulk?
I dont doubt at all with the tide changing shown with images Hulk
would have lost, and myself and others would not been left with a abysmal inexusable cliffhanger.

What if great evidence collecting including fingerprinting existed when Jack the Ripper was murdering?
Likely he would have been caught, and vast conspiracy theories about who Jack the ripper is plus why the murders stopped would not be created.

[The Whovian]

What if the huge PIS didnt happen and Ghost Rider with Zarathos in control got to continue fighting WWHulk?
I dont doubt at all with the tide changing shown with images Hulk
would have lost, and myself and others would not been left with a abysmal inexusable cliffhanger.

What if great evidence collecting including fingerprinting existed when Jack the Ripper was murdering?
Likely he would have been caught, and vast conspiracy theories about who Jack the ripper is plus why the murders stopped would not be created.

I don't think anyone at that point could defeat WW Hulk