Billy & Teddy's Excellent Adventure: Wiccan & Hulkling Appreciation

[SonofScarlet]

On the issue of Billy's relationship with his parents, I know it's been a while since they've been shown, but I think it's been proven time and again that he has a very active home life "off-screen." I mean he and Teddy had been living at Billy's house for a year or more before the events of Vol. 2.

He was shown as still having a strong relationship with his bio-parents, and that he wasn't avoiding or hiding them for Teddy's sake. In fact Teddy seemed grateful to them for taking him in and treating him like family. Admittedly, Billy wasn't shown running to check on them after everyone was cured of the parasite mother, but he'd kinda just experienced demi-godhood and reunited with Teddy (<3<3<3<3). I think he can be forgiven just this once.

It wasn't until New Avengers that they weren't mentioned or shown, and as we can see this was definitely meant to be a growing moment for both Billy and Teddy as they kinda figure out their lives outside the Young Avengers. And in a subtextual sort of way, figuring out that bridge between childhood and adulthood. I mean, the whole arc for them was shifting from Young Avengers to this new Avengers team, to being kicked out of said team to save it, and in turn having to LEAD an Avengers team. Then to "going solo" at the end, starting their new life. So that the Kaplan's were missing isn't all that surprising.

[Magmaster12]

At least they've shown his parents, we've only seen one of his younger brothers.

[Wiccan]

The first Young Avengers collection includes Heinberg's original pitch, and Billy was always supposed to be Wanda's "son" and Speed was supposed to be introduced later. (The pitch says Billy would find out he was adopted, which was probably changed when they realized the age problem made it impossible for them to literally be the Scarlet Witch's sons.)

Having him take after Thor at first was part of the big conceptual joke of YA, which was that the four original members all looked like they were copying famous Marvel heroes, but they all turned out to have connections to other, less famous Marvel characters: Billy looked like Thor Jr. but was really the new Scarlet Witch, Hulkling was really the son of Mar-vell and had nothing to do with the Hulk. Etc.

Right then, I stand corrected. I don't get the deal about the ages though? For him to be a reincarnation, it takes even more time than if he was really her son. Truth is that the timeline never matched and it never will, I guess we're gonna have to go with the possibilities Wanda's solo brought in, that her children's soul traveled through time, or that they were normal kids until their souls got replaced. But that last one makes the fact that they two look alike even more weird(not to count the fact that they have the same names as Wanda's original children lol. Even Sailor Moon did that better with Serenity and Usagi). I think it would've been better if they made it so Billy was really adopted, as in that his biological parents were the Shepherds, who would be dead and so they went to the orphanage. Billy got lucky while Tommy didn't.

I think that's true in like, general perception. I mean, just look at fan reaction to Wiccan and Speed: do people know them from being the children of the Kaplans or the Shepherds? Hell no. They are constantly referred to as ''the children of the Scarlet Witch and the Vision''. And it's a label that it's understandably hard to hide from, because it's a pretty iconic storyline that started way back in the 80s. And if that is actually being adapted in the MCU like some people are speculating? Brace yourselves, because those babies are everything the general audience will be talking about. It's really bittersweet, because while I love the attention the boys get out of it, it kind of undermines some stories I would like to see being explored.

BTW, Fokken, did you ever finish coloring that art of yours? Not trying to rush you or anything. Just really curious to see how it turned out.



That is an excellent point: it's not like we are getting tons of writers who are writing about Billy's relationship with Wanda either. I think she has a certain advantage over the Kaplans for being more popular, but when it comes to actual on-page stories, I feel like no one has really bothered to do much with what Heinberg had established for the characters, which is a pity. Bottom line is: we just don't have enough Wiccan. We need more, Marvel.

LOL at ''choke me daddy''. I mean, if comics Thor is anything like Chris Hemsworth, I wouldn't blame Billy at all for the thirst. In my headcanon, the reason why he decided to go with Thor is simply because they were trying to emulate the straight white male fantasy quartet: Captain America, Iron Man, Hulk and Thor. Let us not forget that Billy was a closeted gay kid who got bullied for his ''perceived gayness''. Maybe when they started it all, he just wasn't comfortable enough presenting himself as the parallel of a female figure. Plus, wasn't the point of the Young Avengers to challenge perceptions? Like, on the cover of the very first issue, it said ''they're not what you think...'', which was clearly a hint to the fact that all of them would turn out to have unexpected origins. This is why I don't think Heinberg changed his mind about Wiccan halfway through the story. I think he was always supposed to be a Scarlet Witch legacy (I mean, we saw him using his reality manipulation very early on), but Heinberg had to use the Thor analogy to not give it away from the get-go.

As I said above, I kinda brain-farted and forgot about the whole theme of the New Avengers, you're totally right. I'd rather keep my headcanon of why Billy chose Thor rather than your more sad version lol.

And yeah, no one seems to really care about what Heinberg set up for them. Even Wanda, who at the end of CC said she wanted to make up for lost time and be with her children. Remender even made it so Wanda blamed all on Doom and was lowkey unapologetic about Day M, when on CC she was still feeling guilty and assumed some responsability.

About Wanda and Billy interactions, they kinda had more than usual last year... As in it happened on 3 issues, of 2 separate books. Too bad though, that the one in Wanda's book got messed up in my head because of art issues that made me see the scene completely different lol.

[Drops Of Venus]

At least they've shown his parents, we've only seen one of his younger brothers.

Wait, we have??? When on Earth did that happen? I honestly can't remember.

Right then, I stand corrected. I don't get the deal about the ages though? For him to be a reincarnation, it takes even more time than if he was really her son. Truth is that the timeline never matched and it never will, I guess we're gonna have to go with the possibilities Wanda's solo brought in, that her children's soul traveled through time, or that they were normal kids until their souls got replaced. But that last one makes the fact that they two look alike even more weird(not to count the fact that they have the same names as Wanda's original children lol. Even Sailor Moon did that better with Serenity and Usagi). I think it would've been better if they made it so Billy was really adopted, as in that his biological parents were the Shepherds, who would be dead and so they went to the orphanage. Billy got lucky while Tommy didn't.

Yeah, the timeline for Billy and Tommy's origins just never made sense. I think Heinberg didn't really consider the sliding timescale when he wrote the story, and editorial didn't warn him either, so we ended up with a confusing origin story for them (and for Hulkling too). And yes, the time travelling theory established on the Scarlet Witch solo is my official headcanon for their origin now. It's a simple way to explain it. I'm still waiting for someone to elaborate on Teddy and why he's much older than he should be, though.

[MaximoffTrash]

Patriot was related to Captain America - just not Steve. Iron Lad was actually Kang, and not a male version of later hero Ironheart. Kate had absolutely no connection to Hawkeye or Mockingbird (who at the time, were both dead, they came back in House of M and Secret Invasion respectively). The only one who was exactly what she seemed was Stature. Size changer, related to Ant-Man... though of course, not the original one. Cassie was also the only character who already existed and wasn't created for YA, she debuted in 1979 along with her father.

I think YA is released after House of M? Since it's what caused the souls of William/Thomas reincarnated?
Clint is alive after HoM and showed up after CW, he is actually alive when Kate started running around.

[Wiccan]

I think YA is released after House of M? Since it's what caused the souls of William/Thomas reincarnated?
Clint is alive after HoM and showed up after CW, he is actually alive when Kate started running around.

Young Avengers is from a couple months before House of M. The whole thing about Wanda's kids was already a thing back in Disassembled, that happened around like a year before.

[MaximoffTrash]

Wait, we have??? When on Earth did that happen? I honestly can't remember.



Yeah, the timeline for Billy and Tommy's origins just never made sense. I think Heinberg didn't really consider the sliding timescale when he wrote the story, and editorial didn't warn him either, so we ended up with a confusing origin story for them (and for Hulkling too). And yes, the time travelling theory established on the Scarlet Witch solo is my official headcanon for their origin now. It's a simple way to explain it. I'm still waiting for someone to elaborate on Teddy and why he's much older than he should be, though.

Well, considering Phyla and Genis, I'd just accept that Mar-Vell's kids grow fast as hell, they all got manually aged up maybe.
And how did Mar-Vell find time to hook up with Teddy's mom anyway? In that story, Marv is like getting restained all the time.(And Rick just freeze them all.) So I assume Teddy could be like his siblings?Created from harvested Genetic material instead of natural-born? Just random thoughts.

[MaximoffTrash]

Young Avengers is from a couple months before House of M. The whole thing about Wanda's kids was already a thing back in Disassembled, that happened around like a year before.

But did YA happen after HoM in story though?
I always thought Billy and Tommy are reborn after HoM.(Like they are written into existence.)

[Sutekh]

Kate had absolutely no connection to Hawkeye or Mockingbird (who at the time, were both dead, they came back in House of M and Secret Invasion respectively).

Being a young socialite who kind of thrust herself uninvited into the superhero limelight makes Kate almost more of a Wasp legacy than a Hawkeye (crook carny gone straight) riff, which is kind of cool, and goes with the theme of 'you think Asgardian / Hulkling / Iron Lad is related to Thor / Hulk / Iron Man, but actually, surprise!'

As for Billy and Tommy having some sort of connection to Wanda's magical children, I've often wondered two things;

A) Why does Tommy have super-speed like his mother's brother, instead of some sort of abilities that came from his *father,* the Vision? That would seem more likely, IMO. They are 'magical' kids, so there's no reason at all they can't 'inherit' stuff from both parents, even if one of them is synthetic.

B) Since Wanda's kids were later found to have been created from missing chunks of Mephisto's soul (blown apart by Franklin Richards), which were later reassembled, do Billy and Tommy have some sort of connection to Mephisto? It would be freaky as heck for Mephisto to be doing some shenanigans and stomping the Avengers in the process, and for the Scarlet Witch to be part of the action, and he hesitates, not entirely sure if he can actually attack the woman who 'poisoned' the 'purity' of his evil by once showing portions of him a mother's love (which he still remembers, even if it was only 2/5ths of him)... He could hate her for that. He might want to destroy her extra hard for that. He might find himself unable to go through with it, and hate himself for the weakness she's 'infected' him with, as he let's her go...

C) Could Billy and Tommy represent some sort of backdoor link to the mortal world that Mephisto intends to exploit some day, and Tommy's occasional ethical lapses perhaps represent Mephisto's influence (and Billy's ever-expanding magical influence, and spotty control, also have something to do with Mephisto wanting to 'power him up' to where he can open the door and let Mephisto all the way in?). I'm not sure I want that sort of storyline, since I'd rather Tommy's past poor choices be all on him and not something that can be explained away, and I want Billy's power to be all him, and not something like the Phoenix Force, bestowed upon him by a third party / possessing entity / whatever.

[Fokken]

My thoughts(and headache??) on Billy and Tommy (and Teddy) and their respective age issues.

Billy/Tommy: Wanda and Vision decide to start a family. Wanda is pregs. Wanda subconsciously wants twins, has twins, and then loses twins. Cue the Wanda meltdown. Cue the House of M and everyone getting their "hearts desire". Cue Wanda's second meltdown. Full instability reality rug sweeping. Wanda's HoM babies "souls" (perhaps THESE souls were not stolen from anywhere, but through the Life Seed(?) were made entirely original for their House of M existence??) get lost in the time space continuum reshuffle and wind up in Mama Kaplan and Mama Shepherd respectively.
(Side note, I like to believe both boys were born with shared jet black hair and that upon Tommy's powers emerging, he became the platinum cutie we know him to be, thereby further complicating his home-life-experience)
Wanda's internal whimsy combined with her wacky "wish it and it is" powers thereby dictate their future -- aka: they'll be like she and Pietro, but happier (the old adage of most parents: I want them to have everything we didn't). After all, the whole slivers of soul(?) stolen from Mephisto was entirely unintentional/subconscious, right? Why wouldn't any additional "life hacks" to their existence also simply be a matter of Wanda's subconscious? <shrug>
Yes.
Its not really fair nor is it very exciting. You know, "Because REALITY WARPING" but given the complexity of the elements already involved??? Again: <shrug> haha.

As for Teddy: Since he's as important as he is to the empires of which he was destined to unite, and was sent to Earth to be raised by Skrull-faux-Mom, perhaps he was "aged" (?) to further mask/shield him from being discovered and given false memories of a normal childhood?

[leokearon]

My thoughts(and headache??) on Billy and Tommy (and Teddy) and their respective age issues.

Billy/Tommy: Wanda and Vision decide to start a family. Wanda is pregs. Wanda subconsciously wants twins, has twins, and then loses twins. Cue the Wanda meltdown. Cue the House of M and everyone getting their "hearts desire". Cue Wanda's second meltdown. Full instability reality rug sweeping. Wanda's HoM babies "souls" (perhaps THESE souls were not stolen from anywhere, but through the Life Seed(?) were made entirely original for their House of M existence??) get lost in the time space continuum reshuffle and wind up in Mama Kaplan and Mama Shepherd respectively.
(Side note, I like to believe both boys were born with shared jet black hair and that upon Tommy's powers emerging, he became the platinum cutie we know him to be, thereby further complicating his home-life-experience)
Wanda's internal whimsy combined with her wacky "wish it and it is" powers thereby dictate their future -- aka: they'll be like she and Pietro, but happier (the old adage of most parents: I want them to have everything we didn't). After all, the whole slivers of soul(?) stolen from Mephisto was entirely unintentional/subconscious, right? Why wouldn't any additional "life hacks" to their existence also simply be a matter of Wanda's subconscious? <shrug>
Yes.
Its not really fair nor is it very exciting. You know, "Because REALITY WARPING" but given the complexity of the elements already involved??? Again: <shrug> haha.

As for Teddy: Since he's as important as he is to the empires of which he was destined to unite, and was sent to Earth to be raised by Skrull-faux-Mom, perhaps he was "aged" (?) to further mask/shield him from being discovered and given false memories of a normal childhood?

Teddy probably was hyper-aged given he was apparently conceived after the Kree-Skrull war (so he would be younger than Franklin Richards) and hyper-aging has been done with Mar-vell's other kids. Bily could aso be hyper-aged thanks to reality warping.

[Fokken]

I think it would've been better if they made it so Billy was really adopted, as in that his biological parents were the Shepherds, who would be dead and so they went to the orphanage. Billy got lucky while Tommy didn't.

Agreed. This would've involved far fewer mental gymnastics.

[MaximoffTrash]

Billy and Tommy may just be born earlier than they should have though.
Teddy probably got hyper aged, then again, did he has a complete childhood memory? I mean he thinks he is human before discovering his powers right?
So if he is physically a teenager who only actually was born like less than a decade ago, his Skrull guardian will have to implant some false memory into him.
Or it could be Teddy being a reverse version of Supergirl? I mean time can pass differently on his ship to Earth and they don't have Sci-fi incing stuff to prevent aging, which cause he aging up on his way to Earth.(And then delete his memory and somehow replace it with Earth-based childhood somehow.)Did they show how Teddy get to Earth, I don't remember.

[Digifiend]

Good point about Supergirl. She was launched from Krypton before Superman, but took longer to reach Earth, causing Kara Danvers to still be a teenager when Clark Kent is in his 30s. Clark also didn't age in transit, while Kara did, but slower than usual.

Teddy's parents could've easily found him as a baby the way the Kents found Clark. No, it's never been explained. He would've been sent by the Kree, so time travel can't be ruled out.

[Drops Of Venus]

Well, considering Phyla and Genis, I'd just accept that Mar-Vell's kids grow fast as hell, they all got manually aged up maybe.
And how did Mar-Vell find time to hook up with Teddy's mom anyway? In that story, Marv is like getting restained all the time.(And Rick just freeze them all.) So I assume Teddy could be like his siblings?Created from harvested Genetic material instead of natural-born? Just random thoughts.

Yeah, I think the artificially aging idea is probably the best and most easy way to go. It would make sense too, since his adoptive mom was trying to hide him from both the Skrulls and the Kree. They would be looking for a baby, so aging him up would be a good disguise. As for Mar-Vell's fling with Anelle, I just assume it happened off-page. I think the conception was natural, too. I mean, at one point we did see Teddy as a baby in a flashback panel, so... Was there any later Anelle appearence that contradicts the possibility of her being naturally pregnant? Looking at her Wiki Page, it seems that her only appearance after the Kree/Skrull War was in an FF book a decade later, where she died when Galactus ate her planet (Yikes. Galactus could very well bring her back now that he's the Lifebringer, though), so it doesn't seem impossible that she was pregnant in-between those events and we just didn't know about it.

But did YA happen after HoM in story though?
I always thought Billy and Tommy are reborn after HoM.(Like they are written into existence.)

In the YA special issue where Jessica Jones does interviews with the members and they tell her their origins, we learn that Billy got to meet Wanda before the events of HOM, and he discovers his powers around the same time Disassembled happened (he freaks out and tries to contact the Avengers, but they were gone because of Disassembled). So yes, chronologically, I think the first volume of YA is supposed to take place before the aftermatch of HOM. Although, who knows, Wanda's powers went so overboard, it's not impossible to think she might've affected the past in some way too.

Being a young socialite who kind of thrust herself uninvited into the superhero limelight makes Kate almost more of a Wasp legacy than a Hawkeye (crook carny gone straight) riff, which is kind of cool, and goes with the theme of 'you think Asgardian / Hulkling / Iron Lad is related to Thor / Hulk / Iron Man, but actually, surprise!'

That's the thing I loved the most about Kate. She was the only one there who wasn't an Avengers fanboy/girl. She couldn't care less about being someone's legacy. She just wanted some purpose in her life and the Young Avengers just happened to land on it (literally), so she just went ''yeah, I'm gonna be a superhero now''.

As for Billy and Tommy having some sort of connection to Wanda's magical children, I've often wondered two things;

A) Why does Tommy have super-speed like his mother's brother, instead of some sort of abilities that came from his *father,* the Vision? That would seem more likely, IMO. They are 'magical' kids, so there's no reason at all they can't 'inherit' stuff from both parents, even if one of them is synthetic.

I think you just answered your own question: it's magic. It doesn't have to make any sense, haha. Maybe Wanda felt inspired by her own relationship with Pietro when she warped the twins into reality, which is what caused those specific powersets. Plus, Vision DID get a legacy hero on Young Avengers: Jonas. Maybe Heinberg just felt like there wasn't a need for two Vision legacies, so he decided to do something different with Tommy.

B) Since Wanda's kids were later found to have been created from missing chunks of Mephisto's soul (blown apart by Franklin Richards), which were later reassembled, do Billy and Tommy have some sort of connection to Mephisto? It would be freaky as heck for Mephisto to be doing some shenanigans and stomping the Avengers in the process, and for the Scarlet Witch to be part of the action, and he hesitates, not entirely sure if he can actually attack the woman who 'poisoned' the 'purity' of his evil by once showing portions of him a mother's love (which he still remembers, even if it was only 2/5ths of him)... He could hate her for that. He might want to destroy her extra hard for that. He might find himself unable to go through with it, and hate himself for the weakness she's 'infected' him with, as he let's her go...

I've brought this up before and yes, I REALLY REALLY REALLY want to see this potential connection with Mephisto being explored. We know Mephisto is going to be the big bad in an upcoming mini-event featuring mystical heroes, so fingers crossed Wiccan will be there and the writers will explore that.