Billy & Teddy's Excellent Adventure: Wiccan & Hulkling Appreciation

[Beaubier]

They don't have to break up to spend time apart from each other. They can still be a couple while appearing in books without each other. I think it's necessary for their character development. I mean has Teddy appeared in any story without Billy even once? I can't think of any. I know Billy has had a story without Teddy.

[Wiccan]

Yeah I'd like to see them being on different teams and everything while still being together. Actually I wouldn't mind if they broke up for a while, but the thing is that in Marvel, when couples break up is kinda like... Forever. They tease it all the time(like Rogue and Gambit for example) but they never actually get back together. I'm not sure I'd take the risk of Marvel destroying them forever.

[ChronoRogue]

If they did break up, they'd probably have to character assassinate one of them to do that.

I rather not risk it given many writers track records. Look at the lengths Quesada did to break up MJ and Peter and both still came out looking horrible.

Plus, as Wiccan mentioned, they'd probably take a really long time to get back together. So Marvel could just... you know, write a healthy couple that can function independently on different teams. It shouldn't be that hard.

[Magmaster12]

I think the reason Wiccan is more popular is because his connection to Scarlet Witch is still strong while it feels like Mar-Vell is being written out of Marvel's history because Carol's origin is somehow too similar to Hal Jordan's.

[Fokken]

I do not want them to break-up, like at all, but I'm completely fine with them being on different teams. They do need to interact with people that is not each other sometimes.

Teddy should join GoG (ideally when his sister is also on the team) and Wiccan can join the main Avengers team or UA (if it doesn't end up completely cancelled and instead gets revamped).

Oooooh I would have LOVED to see Billy on the Uncanny Avengers squad. That would have been fun.
Seeing him interact with Cable, Rogue, Deadpool, VooDoo, his "DAD" Vision and his "UNCLE" Pietro ---that would have been RAD.
Even if it was just for a brief arc to lend a hand, like say if VooDoo was down or something.


I'm still holding out hope that some ambitious scribe will scoop up Teddy's Excelsior plot and foster it further into fruition.

[Digifiend]

^Huh? Vision isn't on the Unity Squad...

[Fokken]

^Huh? Vision isn't on the Unity Squad...

He was a member of one iteration, and guest appeared during the Pymtron stuff (which was easily one of the more lovely arcs from an art standpoint)

[J. D. Guy]

I wouldn't want Billy and Teddy to break up either, but it would be nice if they were shown on adventures that weren't with each other in some capacity, just for the sake of indivigual story development.

Single panel cameo appearance. It depicted a future battle with Thanos, but there wasn't any direct reference to Hulkling and he wasn't really highlighted in any way. Just happened to be there....helping.

Yeah, he, Black Knight, and Faiza Hussein all stabbed Thanos with their swords.

Ah, so nothing too big then. I guess it'll depend on if this was just a tease. Especially since Thanos is kinda dying in his Solo book right now.

I do think it's just your perception, because that's not what happens. Heinberg created Hulkling's history in the 3rd arc of the original Young Avengers run (and in those 12 issues, it should be noted Billy did NOT get an arc about him, only Teddy). Then we had the Civil War Runaways arc; and while both were kidnapped, we did see it from Billy's point of view (though that arc was about the team, no one person got "the arc"; and outside of one scene Wiccan doesn't do much). Next we had Secret Invasion, VERY Hulkling focused, with Billy not in it very much at all (again please note by this time Billy had STILL not had an arc about him; where as Hulkling had had got two). Then we come to Avengers: Children's Crusade. And it's Billy focused (which is fair, he hadn't had an arc); and this is where everyone's "Hulkling is only his boyfriend, he just stands there shouting "BILLY!"; Young Avengers is nothing but Wiccan!" complaints come from. I don't know if it's because it was such a big series (a lot of exposure/sales, House of M continuation, major character work for Scarlet Witch's return, Rictor gets his powers, X-men and Avengers play big roles, Doom etc) OR because the delays stretched it over almost two years? So it "felt" like Wiccan had been the focus for so long. What followed was then Gillen's Young Avengers. And while Wiccan is the "protagonist" he actually doesn't appear in a lot of it (unlike Hulkling). Hulkling gets a solo issue about him (Wiccan does not), in fact Wiccan does not actually appear in 1/3 of the run (another fact people forget). He's the catalyst, but Hulkling is actually the one who gets the focus. The break-up is from Hulkling's point of view, we see Hulkling's fallout from it, Hulkling's therapy; all this time we know nothing of how Billy is feeling. Then we have Al Ewing's run, and to be fair Hulkling got his arc, and then Billy's two parter... a) is a continuation of Hulkling's, and b) it's again really from Hulkling's point of view, Wiccan is possessed for most of it. Ewing promotes Wiccan to team leader (the first ever LGBT+ Avenger team leader) and we get one issue about it; hardly Wiccan 'central either. I feel Ewing did more for Hulkling than Wiccan.

I think ultimately Wiccan is more popular, and it is THAT that makes it feel like it's always Wiccan lead, because in the writing it's perfectly balanced.

I be honest, I don't quite appreciate the bluntness of your response here, as it comes off too much as "I am wrong", and I'm not the only one who feels that Teddy tends to take a backseat to Billy in one facet or another more often than the other way around or then them coming off as being equal. Even in some of your examples, like when the point of view is on Billy when both were kidnapped, in spite of their otherwise small roles at that point, leans toward a focus on Billy. Otherwise, we'd have had both of them take turns narrating their scenes, etc.

Honestly, I kinda think that the Young Avengers run with Marvel Boy and Prodigy has a lot to do with this Billy-preferenced perception.

One thing I will say is that regardless of your post here, I wouldn't agree that the two are perfectly balanced throughout their written existence.

Also: Billy concept art for Avengers Academy:

They said he and Teddy are both coming on a Young Avengers event! https://news.marvel.com/games/59095/...-concept-hero/

Even though I don't play it, I love looking at the character progression art of each of the game's characters. I really love Billy's here, how he goes from regular unassuming teen into the Heroic and powerful figure we know him to now be. Plus it (the farthest right outfit) just looks cool.

[NexusTenebrare]

If they did break up, they'd probably have to character assassinate one of them to do that.

I rather not risk it given many writers track records. Look at the lengths Quesada did to break up MJ and Peter and both still came out looking horrible.

Plus, as Wiccan mentioned, they'd probably take a really long time to get back together. So Marvel could just... you know, write a healthy couple that can function independently on different teams. It shouldn't be that hard.

Well Doctor Strange and the sorcerers supreme is a step in the right direction. Sadly, it's an alt future version of Wiccan.
But it is a good example of what people seem to want, which is having them be on adventures apart from each other.
Personally I love both characters and I'd rather see both of them. If you have them seperate you risk writers only using one of them and the other staying in limbo.

I be honest, I don't quite appreciate the bluntness of your response here, as it comes off too much as "I am wrong", and I'm not the only one who feels that Teddy tends to take a backseat to Billy in one facet or another more often than the other way around or then them coming off as being equal. Even in some of your examples, like when the point of view is on Billy when both were kidnapped, in spite of their otherwise small roles at that point, leans toward a focus on Billy. Otherwise, we'd have had both of them take turns narrating their scenes, etc.

Honestly, I kinda think that the Young Avengers run with Marvel Boy and Prodigy has a lot to do with this Billy-preferenced perception.

One thing I will say is that regardless of your post here, I wouldn't agree that the two are perfectly balanced throughout their written existence.

If that's your idea of bluntness, you must be new to the internet. That's positively jovial compared to 80% of responses you might get online.
And to be fair, you are wrong. And it's annoying that those of us without selective memory need to keep pointing out published facts.

[Fokken]

If that's your idea of bluntness, you must be new to the internet. That's positively jovial compared to 80% of responses you might get online.

Yeah, that's true.

And to be fair, you are wrong. And it's annoying that those of us without selective memory need to keep pointing out published facts.

And look! Here's a demonstration!

[NexusTenebrare]

Yeah, that's true.


And look! Here's a demonstration!

I know, right? :P

[Anduinel]

by redemsi

I was so annoyed when I saw this was fanart...

[NexusTenebrare]

I was so annoyed when I saw this was fanart...

Damn you. I got my hopes up there for a second.
Just the second before I saw it was fanart, but coming down from the excitement was a killer.

That being said, if Wiccan did get a solo, I'd want him in a proper superhero costume. He's had three great costumes. I wouldn't want any of that more real world clothing thing they do from time to time that this art seems to support.

[Kieran_Frost]

I be honest, I don't quite appreciate the bluntness of your response here

I'm sorry if it upset you; yes it was intended to squash the erroneous idea Hulkling never gets attention, but I promise it wasn't a personal attack on you.

as it comes off too much as "I am wrong", and I'm not the only one who feels that Teddy tends to take a backseat to Billy in one facet or another more often than the other way around or then them coming off as being equal.

There are two things going on here: one (and I really can't find a non-blunt way of saying this, so apologies) the idea Billy gets a significant disproportionate attention over Teddy is just false. It's erroneous; and the comics do not back up the claim Billy gets the lion's share. The second is: a lot of Billy fans are tired of this false claim. We've been polite, we've shown the data, and it's still carted out on a far more regular basis than is acceptable. It's just false. And it's time we put to bed false claims against our boy Billy.

Honestly, I kinda think that the Young Avengers run with Marvel Boy and Prodigy has a lot to do with this Billy-preferenced perception.

But Hulkling was in that series far more than Billy; go back and re-read it, genuinely he doesn't even appear (not even in the background) in 1/4 of the issues, and is barely in a whole third of the series. He doesn't get a solo issue (unlike Hulkling, Loki and Prodigy), his story at the end is shared with Hulkling (where as all the rest of the cast get one to themselves). He is the catalyst, but that doesn't mean he gets all the attention. I think some mis-remember how the chips fell because a) he gets the major power upgrade, b) he saves the multi-verse. But in terms of actual story time, anyone claiming he gets the lion's share is just not being honest with themselves or the comic. It's like claiming Emma Frost got nothing to do in Uncanny X-men by Bendis, when you break down the issues and compare it to the rest of the cast, the numbers don't add up to the claim.

One thing I will say is that regardless of your post here, I wouldn't agree that the two are perfectly balanced throughout their written existence.

Perfectly balanced, no. But that's near impossible for any couple to get. Disproportionately balanced... no, that cannot be applied to them. They are pretty equal, with Billy possibly having a slight lead. SLIGHT. But if you look to most other couples, I think Billy & Hulkling actually get it pretty fair when it comes to story attention.

If that's your idea of bluntness, you must be new to the internet. That's positively jovial compared to 80% of responses you might get online. And to be fair, you are wrong. And it's annoying that those of us without selective memory need to keep pointing out published facts.

[Digifiend]

https://news.marvel.com/games/59815/...ngers-academy/